Waiving/non-tendering Villar: pro or con?

[DirtyBird]

If this allows Elias to cut Davis would anyone’s opinions change?

[DirtyBird]

Can of Corn hasn’t voted yet, so I don’t know the correct answer.

[MurphDogg]

1 minute ago, DirtyBird said:

If this allows Elias to cut Davis would anyone’s opinions change?

Not cutting Davis is about not spending an extra $560K, if it takes saving $9M to spend $560K then no, it does not change my opinion.

[Spl51]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

BTW, I'm dumbfounded that anyone could be for this move. I'd like to really understand that line of thinking.

Are you trying to be deliberately obtuse? Everything is so black and white nowadays, that a difference of opinion is invalid. Plenty of people have made an argument why this is not a huge deal.

I remember having to argue that the Schoop trade was good, and now deciding that not paying Villar is tantamount to the biggest crisis of Oriole fandom ever. 

I certainly enjoyed watching Villar, and had to argue his value to those constantly arguing that he made dumb mistakes, but that value to me is certainly not enough for me to say whether his price tag was worth that entertainment. Obviously other teams agreed that he wasn't worth that arbitration figure, or they would have thrown 2 lotto tickets our way for him. The Orioles certainly don't control the value that baseball places on Jonathon Villar or players like him.

I'll enjoy watching them throwing players against the wall trying to see if one sticks, but whoever will be there will no doubt be a placeholder. I enjoyed watching Villar, and am fine with letting him go, we got good value from him when he was here.

[DirtyBird]

2 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Not cutting Davis is about not spending an extra $560K, if it takes saving $9M to spend $560K then no, it does not change my opinion.

You really think the decision on Davis is about $560k?

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Spl51 said:

Are you trying to be deliberately obtuse? Everything is so black and white nowadays, that a difference of opinion is invalid. Plenty of people have made an argument why this is not a huge deal.

I remember having to argue that the Schoop trade was good, and now deciding that not paying Villar is tantamount to the biggest crisis of Oriole fandom ever. 

I certainly enjoyed watching Villar, and had to argue his value to those constantly arguing that he made dumb mistakes, but that value to me is certainly not enough for me to say whether his price tag was worth that entertainment. Obviously other teams agreed that he wasn't worth that arbitration figure, or they would have thrown 2 lotto tickets our way for him. The Orioles certainly don't control the value that baseball places on Jonathon Villar or players like him.

I'll enjoy watching them throwing players against the wall trying to see if one sticks, but whoever will be there will no doubt be a placeholder. I enjoyed watching Villar, and am fine with letting him go, we got good value from him when he was here.

Nope, not trying to be anything other than trying to understand how anyone thinks this is just like Schoop or any other deal.

The Orioles are giviing away one of their best players, who is 28 years old, over about 3 million dollars. If that doesn't scare you, than I guess we have a different tolerance for what we think is ok. Villar is coming off a 4 WAR season and is 28 years old and is in line to make about $10.7 million next year and the team is saying, "Nope, we care so little about bringing any semblance of decent baseball to Orioles fans that we are just going to let him walk for nothing."

Has a team ever DFA'd a player after a 4 WAR season? 

We all know the Orioles are not going to compete next year, and if you can trade these guys for players that will help in the future than great,but to just give them away is almost fraudulent. 

It is completely unethical and embarrassing for a team to release a player over $3 million when they are already carrying a ridiculously low payroll. Meanwhile we get to watch Chris Davis come back next spring. It's just disgusting in every way and honestly, it's not making me want to come back and cover a team that cares so little about it's fans. 

How do we know Bundy won't be traded for a hill of beans? Is Mancini next? How long do we get to keep Rutschman before he's DFA'd for being too expensive if the team isn't good enough? It's just an awful, awful precedence. 

I never in 1000 years thought I'd see the day that Elias just releases his best player over an MLB pittance of money. It just shows me and every other Orioles fan that the Orioles (Don't know if this is Elias or ownership) absolutely don't care about them as they rebuild. It also tells me that we can never trust them with a player because they are so cold and heartless about the fans that it won't matter. Whatever the bean counters tell them makes sense is apparently the new norm. No fanfest, release their best player? What's next?

Maybe we should start interviewing the bean counters and see what players don't make the grade. It's all just embarrassing.

[MurphDogg]

12 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

You really think the decision on Davis is about $560k?

Absolutely. The other money is gone. If they wanted to cut Davis it would cost them $560k to replace him on the roster. They have made a business decision that $560k is an unnecessary expense so Davis remains on the roster.

[murph]

15 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Not cutting Davis is about not spending an extra $560K, if it takes saving $9M to spend $560K then no, it does not change my opinion.

Honestly I am confused about this as well.   And of those with the monicker with something “Murph” in his name, usually you are the more eloquent and substantive poster.   I can say this with complete confidence.   .    But really not sure what you are saying and curious.   560k seems irrelevant.   But we are missing something?

[murph]

2 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Absolutely. The other money is gone. If they wanted to cut Davis it would cost them $560k to replace him on the roster. They have made a business decision that $560k is an unnecessary expense so Davis remains on the roster.

Ohhhhhhh, yea.  That makes sense.   Didn’t think about league minimum.   Whoops. 

[luismatos4prez]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

This is an awful descion by the Orioles. They already have a low payroll and now they are DFAing one their best players because his Arbitration number? This is a middle finger to their fans. We all understand this is a rebuild, but you dont just release players who are good. This is an awful competitive and fan move. It's actually quite embarrassing to do this as well as you just made yourself the laughing stock of baseball.

This is a major warning sign that Elias is not being given the money to put out even a respectable product. If they had traded him I would have gotten the move, but to just DFA him after the year he had is embarrassing. Its embarrasing to baseball and slap on the face to their fans, even the ones who understand they are in a rebuild. 

I have been completely onboarding with what Elias has been doing with this rebuild until this move. I'm now embarrassed as a fan and can give no reasonable excuse for this move as a person who has covered this team for 24 years.

Completely agree. I am very strongly opposed to this move. 

I was cautiously optimistic about the Elias and Sons Era. Not anymore. Just embarrassing.

[MurphDogg]

It is entirely unprecedented for a profitable team to decide that they don't want good players who make more than a minimum salary. It is crazy to me that anyone can defend this move.

[DirtyBird]

6 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Absolutely. The other money is gone. If they wanted to cut Davis it would cost them $560k to replace him on the roster. They have made a business decision that $560k is an unnecessary expense so Davis remains on the roster.

Just because this is the logically correct thinking doesn’t mean it is the logic ownership is using on the Davis decision. I am sure you don’t actually believe it is.

[MurphDogg]

7 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Just because this is the logically correct thinking doesn’t mean it is the logic ownership is using on the Davis decision. I am sure you don’t actually believe it is.

What do you think the reason is?

Do you think they believe he will provide more value than the $560k player that would replace him?

Do you think they believe that fans would be angry if they released Davis?

[luismatos4prez]

I suppose there's still a chance they trade him before releasing him so maybe I'll withhold my negativity about this for now. I'm not sure how waiving him helps the trade market though.

[Spl51]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Nope, not trying to be anything other than trying to understand how anyone thinks this is just like Schoop or any other deal.

The Orioles are giviing away one of their best players, who is 28 years old, over about 3 million dollars. If that doesn't scare you, than I guess we have a different tolerance for what we think is ok. Villar is coming off a 4 WAR season and is 28 years old and is in line to make about $10.7 million next year and the team is saying, "Nope, we care so little about bringing any semblance of decent baseball to Orioles fans that we are just going to let him walk for nothing."

Your obvious anger is impeding your ability to try to be understanding of other perspectives.

I personally find enjoyment in dozens of things in baseball absent pure winning and performance. I enjoy seeing progress of individual players as well as strategies and finding value in places that or undervalued. My personal enjoyment of watching the Orioles will certainly change without Villar, but I'm able to see the reasons why it really has no affect on the direction the team is heading towards. 

The slippery slope argument just really doesn't scan for me, and the assumptions about what the ultimate goal for what team it will ultimately be is just obvious hyperbole.