Prospects under pressure to perform

[Frobby]

35 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

You could argue that.  But would you argue that?  

 

30 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

There are different types of pressure that come with different expectations.  To say that one guy doesn't have any pressure cause he's got it made for life from a financial perspective isn't accurate, IMO.  

Didn’t say Rutschman didn’t have any pressure.     And yes, I agree there are different types of pressure that come with different expectations.     And also, some people have personalities where they feel a lot of pressure whether it’s really there or not, while others are happy-go-lucky and may not really feel any pressure at all even if it’s there.     All that said, yes I’d say a guy like Alvarado is under way more pressure than a guy like Rutschman.    

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

Didn’t say Rutschman didn’t have any pressure.     And yes, I agree there are different types of pressure that come with different expectations.     And also, some people have personalities where they feel a lot of pressure whether it’s really there or not, while others are happy-go-lucky and may not really feel any pressure at all even if it’s there.     All that said, yes I’d say a guy like Alvarado is under way more pressure than a guy like Rutschman.    

I disagree that Alvarado is under way more pressure.  But agree to disagree.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

I disagree that Alvarado is under way more pressure.  But agree to disagree.

Was he Rule 5 eligible? I didn't realize he had some pretty decent numbers last year.

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, interloper said:

Was he Rule 5 eligible? I didn't realize he had some pretty decent numbers last year.

Yes, they left him unprotected.    But he’s exactly the kind of guy who could get called up if some injuries occurred and he was performing well.

[Luke-OH]

10 minutes ago, interloper said:

Was he Rule 5 eligible? I didn't realize he had some pretty decent numbers last year.

He was also a MiLB free agent but they brought him back quickly.

[Frobby]

Just now, Luke-OH said:

He was also a MiLB free agent but they brought him back quickly.

So maybe he’s getting paid a bit more than the AA minimum.    I have no idea what MiL free agents who’ve never been on a 40-man roster get paid, do you?    I imagine it varies a bit depending on level and if the player is viewed as someone who’s a fringe prospect vs. pure MiL filler.    I’d put Alvarado in the former category.   

[sportsfan8703]

The real pressure is for the guys that either have to produce or get DFAd.  Everyone is under pressure to perform, but the relief pitches I mentioned earlier in the thread, and guys like Smith Jr and Stewart, are under "last chance" type pressure.  A guy like Grenier is just a util guy at this point.  He could have a .200 season with the bat in AA, but as long as he's solid defensively, he'll be around next year.  

[Oriole1940]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

They're all under pressure.  This is silly.

Amen.  My first thought was ALL OF THE ABOVE.  

[GuidoSarducci]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

I could argue that Rutschman is under the least pressure of anyone in our entire system.   He’s got $8.1 mm in the bank and there’s almost no way he won’t get called up to the majors eventually, it’s just a matter of which year it happens. So what’s he got to worry about?

Players under pressure?    How about a guy like Cristian Alvarado, who’s 25 years old, not on the 40-man after 8 years in our system, didn’t get a large signing bonus, and may have a lot of family back in Venezuela who are depending on him (though I don’t know that to be the case).    He’s the kind of guy who could get called up to the majors in a pinch and earn as much money in a week as he’d otherwise earn in a year.   I’d say that’s more pressure than Adley Rutschman is under.   

I'd argue the opposite actually, but probably for next year, as the Os just drafted him. 

The expectation for Rutschman is that he becomes the Orioles starting catcher in 2-3 years.  So as long as he performs in the minors the Orioles are not going to look.to give him serious competition through trades, the draft, or free agency that are anything more than stopgaps.   However, if he doesn't perform then that plan could change.   Therefore there is more pressure to perform to secure his eventual spot in the MLB roster. Yes, of course the Orioles have other catching prospects but not with the same level of talent.

Its kind of like an NFL player drafted in the first round, vs later round guys and UDFAs.  The fringe guys are ecstatic just to make the roster, where as the first round guys are under more pressure to start and make plays. 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by GuidoSarducci

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, GuidoSarducci said:

I'd argue the opposite actually, but probably for next year, as the Os just drafted him. 

The expectation for Rutschman is that he becomes the Orioles starting catcher in 2-3 years.  So as long as he performs in the minors the Orioles are not going to look.to give him serious competition through trades of the draft or to sign free agents that are anything more than stopgaps.   However, if he doesn't perform then that plan could change.   Therefore there is more pressure to perform to secure his spot in the MLB roster. Yes, of course the Orioles have other catching prospects but not with the same level of talent.

Its kind of like an NFL player drafted in the first round, vs later round guys and UDFAs.  The fringe guys are ecstatic just to make the roster, where as the first round guys are under more pressure to start and make plays. 

 

I don't get this 3 years bit.  College Catchers taken in the top 5 have been making the majors within 1-2 years of being drafted.

Posey and Zunio were promoted to the majors the year after they were drafted and Wieters was promoted shortly into his second full year in the minors.  Bart made it to AA last season for the Giants.

If it takes until 2022 for Rutschman to make the majors something went wrong.

[sportsfan8703]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't get this 3 years bit.  College Catchers taken in the top 5 have been making the majors within 1-2 years of being drafted.

Posey and Zunio were promoted to the majors the year after they were drafted and Wieters was promoted shortly into his second full year in the minors.  Bart made it to AA last season for the Giants.

If it takes until 2022 for Rutschman to make the majors something went wrong.

June of 2021 sounds about right.  Keep him down just enough to pick up the extra service time, and to avoid the Super two.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

June of 2021 sounds about right.  Keep him down just enough to pick up the extra service time, and to avoid the Super two.  

Which probably won't even be a thing by the time he would qualify.

[UpstateNYfan]

I feel the term pressure has different contexts in different sports. The basketball player on the foul line shooting 1 and 1, his team losing by one with 3 seconds on the clock has pressure. A young golfer, needing to make a four foot putt to earn his PGA tour pass has pressure. In those situations athletes are expected to perform. Baseball does not have similar expectations. A batter fails 7 out of 10 times, players have to learn by failing. A player that feels pressure will die in this sport, 500 AB's, 25 starts (2,000 pitches). The good athletes out there are not over thinking, they are reacting. If you are on an 0 for 20 streak and start to think..good bye.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Which probably won't even be a thing by the time he would qualify.

Why do you say “probably?”    I’ve heard vague things about how the MLBPA is unhappy with the service  time rules, but no real handicapping of what might actually be changed or how.     The most you can say is that it might not be a thing after 2021, but who knows?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Frobby said:

Why do you say “probably?”    I’ve heard vague things about how the MLBPA is unhappy with the service  time rules, but no real handicapping of what might actually be changed or how.     The most you can say is that it might not be a thing after 2021, but who knows?

I was my opinion, I think it very likely that Super 2 will be going away as part of the deal to kill service time manipulation. 

I certainly wouldn't plan future moves based on the idea that it will still be around.