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Chris Waters


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I think this is pretty meaningless and pales in comparison to learning at the big league level.

I don't agree. Being in a pennant race is a very good experience and if their arms are still feeling good (they've both logged a lot of innings), the Orioles could always just bring them up after wards for a few starts (I don't think they will do this.) Either way, taking them out of a pennant race, something they've been a big part of all year, for a couple extra major league starts that they may or may not be ready for is not a good idea in my opinion.

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Right. But if Bergesen or Tillman put up those number in there first 5 starts, they'd be praised for pitching "pretty well" despite just coming up to the major leagues. This is a ridiculous argument.

If you don't understand the difference between Waters and those 2, i don't know what to tell you.

And if those guys had the same peripheral stats and showed medicore stuff, i don't think people would be saying they are pitching "pretty well".

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In bold.

7.94 ERA....Never went past 5 innings and only went 5 innings once.

4.63 BB rate...4.63 K rate....1:1 K/bb...2.65 HR rate

Nothing there is good, servicable or anything like that.

Thats not really his last 3 starts in row you bolded.

For this staff he has been serviceable. A slightly better version of Burres.

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The bottom line is that Waters is, at this moment, the Orioles' best starting pitcher not named Jeremy Guthrie. That may be a depressing fact, but there you have it.

He's not a prospect. He probably doesn't have any long-term future in the organization. But right now the Orioles essentially need him in the rotation until they can scrounge up four other starters who are pitching better.

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I don't think Waters has any future....but he has a present. He's pitched respectably and we desperately need that. So he keeps getting the ball every fifth day until he goes out and stinks for at least three starts in a row.

We needed that seven inning outing, badly.

I agree with this to a point. I don't think Waters has a future in a rotation, but he has a record of success against lefties in the minors so perhaps he could become a Jamie Walker?

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Thats not really his last 3 starts in row you bolded.

For this staff he has been serviceable. A slightly better version of Burres.

No but the comment was made that you keep him in the rotation until he has 3 straight bad starts...I was pointing out that it already happened.
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I agree with this to a point. I don't think Waters has a future in a rotation, but he has a record of success against lefties in the minors so perhaps he could become a Jamie Walker?

As long as it's Jamie Walker version 2007 and not the 2008 version!

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No but the comment was made that you keep him in the rotation until he has 3 straight bad starts...I was pointing out that it already happened.

His 2nd start was hurt a lot by poor defense, and the start before last you could argue he was pulled earlier than he needed to be. I don't think it's so cut and dry.

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His 2nd start was hurt a lot by poor defense, and the start before last you could argue he was pulled earlier than he needed to be. I don't think it's so cut and dry.

And yesterday was helped by good defense...All of that evens out during the season.

He has also been bailed out by the bullpen when he has left games, like the Detroit game.

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I don't agree. Being in a pennant race is a very good experience and if their arms are still feeling good (they've both logged a lot of innings), the Orioles could always just bring them up after wards for a few starts (I don't think they will do this.) Either way, taking them out of a pennant race, something they've been a big part of all year, for a couple extra major league starts that they may or may not be ready for is not a good idea in my opinion.
I disagree that the pennant race is a major factor with why these guys are still in the minors.

If MacPhail/Stockstill thought that Hernandez, Bergesen, or Berken were ready for the majors and that the experience would be of benefit to their development and the major league team, they'd be here. MacPhail pretty much said exactly that during the broadcast last Wednesday.

Promoting these guys right now just doesn't gel with the philosophy the Orioles seem to be taking with their minor leaguers, which is slow and steady. Thats why they are still in Bowie.

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I asked my boss at McDonalds, a keen baseball mind. He said, "Who you asking? Cashman or MacPhail? If you're asking Cash, he ain't starting for me. If you're asking MacPhail, I'm telling you what else have I got?"

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And yesterday was helped by good defense...All of that evens out during the season.

He has also been bailed out by the bullpen when he has left games, like the Detroit game.

All that is true.

And despite all that, he is still pitching better than anybody on the staff other than Guthrie.

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Guthrie

Berken

Bergesen

Olson

Hernandez

No. We tried that this season with Loewen, Olson, Burres. We need to hire people that have shown they know how to do this job. Let Bergy, Berky and Nandy cook at AAA... if they become ready ahead of schedule... we'll have a nice problem and the "Trade Zars" will have a blast.

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The bottom line is that Waters is, at this moment, the Orioles' best starting pitcher not named Jeremy Guthrie. That may be a depressing fact, but there you have it.

He's not a prospect. He probably doesn't have any long-term future in the organization. But right now the Orioles essentially need him in the rotation until they can scrounge up four other starters who are pitching better.

For my purposes, this thread ends with this post.

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The bottom line is that Waters is, at this moment, the Orioles' best starting pitcher not named Jeremy Guthrie. That may be a depressing fact, but there you have it.

He's not a prospect. He probably doesn't have any long-term future in the organization. But right now the Orioles essentially need him in the rotation until they can scrounge up four other starters who are pitching better.

For my purposes, this thread ends with this post.

You didn't like this one?

That's the key to me. Saying Waters should be in the rotation doesn't speak so much about Waters, as it does everyone else. Waters is clearly pitching better than every starter on this team not named Guthrie. Case closed.

Is there an echo in here... in here... in here... :D

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