Poll: what do you think of the Astros’ punishment?

[Ripken]

I'm a well reasoned person.  The punishment seemed right to me at first but, after consuming the report and giving it some thought, it is way too lenient.  The money is nothing to a billionaire owner, so forget that.  The one year suspensions aren't much either.  A GM can keep doing his job while suspended; he just does it more behind the scenes.  IMO, Hinch was grossly overrated anyway but after a year he could have returned like nothing happened.  It wasn't MLB that fired them, it was the Houston owner.  All this really comes down to are the picks.  Four high picks is certainly a penalty but it's not that severe.  Four picks is nothing compared to a championship.  No player was punished.  It's not nearly enough and I believe it's because of embarrassment to the game, widespread abuse, and fear of the MLBPA.  

Short of stripping a title, which I do not believe MLB can do, lifetime bans should be handed out to several people, fines should be 10X what they are, pick loss should go for several years (or possibly no picks for two entire drafts), and players known to have cheated should get a one year suspension.  Let Houston go 38-124 next year, fielding a team of Rule 5 players and other cast-offs.  

[mdbdotcom]

A few thoughts (some of which may be correct):

• They can't punish the players until they have an agreement with the players association giving them authority to punish players for using technology to steal signs.
• Beltran was a player with the Astros, so he can't be punished for what happened in Houston.
• Houston waited to fire Luhnow and Hinch until MLB issued its report and fines. MLB skewered Luhnow and Hinch for not maintaining the integrity of the game, which surely is part of their contracts with the Astros. Since they violated their contracts, the Astros could fire them without having to pay them for the remainder of their deals.
• The Mets won't fire Beltran for what he did as a player in Houston. He did not violate his contract with the Mets. Had this come out earlier, they might not have hired him, but that's poison under the bridge.
• The unofficial rule on cheating in baseball remains the same: It's okay to cheat as long as no one notices or it doesn't work.

[El Gordo]

I think it's too harsh. Sign stealing isn't that big a deal it doesn't have that big of an impact on the game. This is mostly PR. The suspensions were appropriate but the loss of draft picks was piling on IMO.

[atomic]

4 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

I think it's too harsh. Sign stealing isn't that big a deal it doesn't have that big of an impact on the game. This is mostly PR. The suspensions were appropriate but the loss of draft picks was piling on IMO.

They won a World Series by cheating.  Look how Dodgers pitchers performed in Houston vs LA.  Seems a pretty big impact. The only reason Nationals won this year was because they devised a huge pitch calling scramble. 

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

15 minutes ago, Ripken said:

I'm a well reasoned person.  The punishment seemed right to me at first but, after consuming the report and giving it some thought, it is way too lenient.  The money is nothing to a billionaire owner, so forget that.  The one year suspensions aren't much either.  A GM can keep doing his job while suspended; he just does it more behind the scenes.  IMO, Hinch was grossly overrated anyway but after a year he could have returned like nothing happened.  It wasn't MLB that fired them, it was the Houston owner.  All this really comes down to are the picks.  Four high picks is certainly a penalty but it's not that severe.  Four picks is nothing compared to a championship.  No player was punished.  It's not nearly enough and I believe it's because of embarrassment to the game, widespread abuse, and fear of the MLBPA.  

Short of stripping a title, which I do not believe MLB can do, lifetime bans should be handed out to several people, fines should be 10X what they are, pick loss should go for several years (or possibly no picks for two entire drafts), and players known to have cheated should get a one year suspension.  Let Houston go 38-124 next year, fielding a team of Rule 5 players and other cast-offs.  

The players should have received some sort of punishment - but as Manfred noted, it was impractical to do so for a number of reasons:

1. The players would certainly appeal. The appeals could take a long time to resolve.

2. Many of the players are on other teams. You'd be unfairly punishing teams that did nothing wrong.

3. If you suspend half of the Astros' roster, they have to add new players to the 40-man roster to field a team. In 2021, all those players get DFA'd? Not fair to them.

4. The players were promised immunity for honest testimony.

 

Additionally, $5 million is also the maximum fine that can currently be issued. My guess is the fine would be much higher if it was allowed.

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

6 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

I think it's too harsh. Sign stealing isn't that big a deal it doesn't have that big of an impact on the game. This is mostly PR. The suspensions were appropriate but the loss of draft picks was piling on IMO.

It's a big deal. Tell Yu Darvish it isn't.

[wildbillhiccup]

12 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

I think it's too harsh. Sign stealing isn't that big a deal it doesn't have that big of an impact on the game. This is mostly PR. The suspensions were appropriate but the loss of draft picks was piling on IMO.

Stealing a few signs a game...maybe not. Having a system in place where you steal EVERY sign though most definitely has a significant impact on the game. Part of the skill set of professional hitter is guessing what pitches will be thrown. When you take that guesswork out of the game it makes it a helluva lot easier to hit a baseball. 

This wasn't an isolated incident folks. The Astros knowingly put in place a systematic approach to cheat and give themselves a competitive advantage over their opponents. 

[wildbillhiccup]

32 minutes ago, Ripken said:

I'm a well reasoned person.  The punishment seemed right to me at first but, after consuming the report and giving it some thought, it is way too lenient.  The money is nothing to a billionaire owner, so forget that.  The one year suspensions aren't much either.  A GM can keep doing his job while suspended; he just does it more behind the scenes.  IMO, Hinch was grossly overrated anyway but after a year he could have returned like nothing happened.  It wasn't MLB that fired them, it was the Houston owner.  All this really comes down to are the picks.  Four high picks is certainly a penalty but it's not that severe.  Four picks is nothing compared to a championship.  No player was punished.  It's not nearly enough and I believe it's because of embarrassment to the game, widespread abuse, and fear of the MLBPA.  

Short of stripping a title, which I do not believe MLB can do, lifetime bans should be handed out to several people, fines should be 10X what they are, pick loss should go for several years (or possibly no picks for two entire drafts), and players known to have cheated should get a one year suspension.  Let Houston go 38-124 next year, fielding a team of Rule 5 players and other cast-offs.  

I think it would be very difficult to punish the players. The cheating came from the top down and they were simply following orders. The organization, on the other hand, should be held to a much higher standard. And if they were handcuffed by the max fine being $5M and not being able to strip titles they should have come up with other ways to impose punishments. Making the forfeit even more draft picks or possibly even banning them from the playoffs for year would have really sent the message that MLB will not tolerate cheating. 

[Number5]

16 minutes ago, atomic said:

The only reason Nationals won this year was because they devised a huge pitch calling scramble. 

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Stealing a few signs a game...maybe not. Having a system in place where you steal EVERY sign though most definitely has a significant impact on the game. Part of the skill set of professional hitter is guessing what pitches will be thrown. When you take that guesswork out of the game it makes it a helluva lot easier to hit a baseball. 

This wasn't an isolated incident folks. The Astros knowingly put in place a systematic approach to cheat and give themselves a competitive advantage over their opponents. 

Cheating a little is fine just don't get too good at it.

Just like steroids.

[Moose Milligan]

Stephen A, screaming that the Astros should get their title stripped.  

Which I'm fine with, as long as the Red Sox get theirs stripped too because of that doucheloaf Cora.

[wildbillhiccup]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Stephen A, screaming that the Astros should get their title stripped.  

Which I'm fine with, as long as the Red Sox get theirs stripped too because of that doucheloaf Cora.

I think I've found my new Twitter handle. @doucheloaf69

[Scalious]

They can only due what the CBA allows them. Handing lifetime bans for the GM and mananger is the only thing you can change here that makes it worse.

I've never been a fan of retro-active title strips in team sports. Once you start revising history, where do you stop? Winning championships with roid users on them? 

[SteveA]

7 minutes ago, Scalious said:

They can only due what the CBA allows them. Handing lifetime bans for the GM and mananger is the only thing you can change here that makes it worse.

I've never been a fan of retro-active title strips in team sports. Once you start revising history, where do you stop? Winning championships with roid users on them? 

Yeah, and what does it really mean?   The fans still remember the championship, and the celebration.   Do USC fans feel any different about the 2004 national championship because it was "vacated"?   I don't think so.   I guess they can't fly a flag over the football field, or display a trophy in a trophy case.

The Astros championship will now be tainted in a lot of people's minds, and not in others.   Making some official statement that there was no champion that year, what does that really add?   Are you going to declare the Dodgers the champions now?   Are they going to have a parade for them in LA?

It's meaningless and I'm not sure what the people calling for it really are asking for.

[hoosiers]

I think this cheating is way more pervasive than just the Astros and Red Sox (and I see the blurb that the NYY and LAD cheated as well) so I believe the punishment is too harsh.  Folks want an asterisk for this Houston cheating when others were doing it too?  I disagree.

Losing high draft picks in consecutive years almost certainly brings up the real possibility that the Astros will be uncompetitive in four to six years.  The punishment is so unjust - skewering Luhnow when he didn't know it was going on, but sparing the players who cooked up and implemented the system.  Typical Manfred.

As I posted before, in the spirit of the Sarbanes-Oxley compliance implemented by accounting firms over 15 years ago, I would like to see the owner, GM and head coach of every MLB team sign a document saying they are unaware of technology (camera) aided cheating on their current team or any team they have been a part of for the past five seasons.  Offer a reduced penalty for those who admit to cheating and a severe penalty (including lifetieme bans) for those who sign that document and are later found to be cheaters.  I think that would go a long way to understanding how pervasive this cheating is/was.