I think the other shoe is falling (Guthrie)

[Moose Milligan]

Just one season? We're still waiting for you to admit you were wrong about Jerry Hairston.

I've heard about a massive man-crush on Kaz Matsui, too

[Sports Guy]

Yeah, but what if he's a one year wonder? Is he still a "horrible signing"? It's not like he's costing us an arm and a leg.

He's going through the league for a 2nd time now and the scouting reports are out...I'm sorry if I don't believe in the "luck" thing that you keep flaunting with the numbers. I see a pitcher with great stuff and who doesn't get hit hard.

See this is the type of stuff that pisses me off.

I have ALWAYS said that i think Guthrie could be a good BP arm for us.

If you are going to talk about this with me, bring facts to the table.

Other than that, stay out of the conversation.

[Sports Guy]

Just one season? We're still waiting for you to admit you were wrong about Jerry Hairston.

Yes, i was wrong about Jerry.

I was wrong to think he could ever stay healthy to get any kind of a chance.

[Moose Milligan]

See this is the type of stuff that pisses me off.

I have ALWAYS said that i think Guthrie could be a good BP arm for us.

If you are going to talk about this with me, bring facts to the table.

Other than that, stay out of the conversation.

Ooooo, a little hot under the collar! Testy-testy!

Yeah, but what if he totally falls off a cliff from here on out? What if he doesn't even turn out to be a good bullpen arm? (and I'm sorry I haven't taken the time to search for where you've said that...)

Guthries exactly the signing you're ALWAYS pushing for...low risk, high reward. And up until now, it's been pretty much all high reward...

So can we take it for what it is and be happy that he's bucking trends? Why do we always have to be a slave to the stats and comparisons?

[Sports Guy]

Ooooo, a little hot under the collar! Testy-testy!

No just being misquoted.

Yeah, but what if he totally falls off a cliff from here on out? What if he doesn't even turn out to be a good bullpen arm? (and I'm sorry I haven't taken the time to search for where you've said that...)

Then we have lost nothing.(in terms of a true investment)

Guthries exactly the signing you're ALWAYS pushing for...low risk, high reward. And up until now, it's been pretty much all high reward...

Yea, it was fine to bring him in...Never disputed that.

So can we take it for what it is and be happy that he's bucking trends?

I am.

Why do we always have to be a slave to the stats and comparisons?

Because this is a discussion board?

[Guest oriofan8]

I mean it might just be time to admit that you were possibly wrong about this.

Can that have it's own thread ??

[Frobby]

Yea he did...But just as 7 IP/5 ER start can look a lot better than the numbers show, a 6 IP/2 ER start can look worse than the numbers show.

I can agree with this. However, Guthrie's two starts that immediately preceded his one blowout were both games where he pitched much better than his final line indicated. Overall I would say that any worries I had that Guthrie was beginning to fray have been assuaged. That was an excellent outing yesterday.

[Hank Scorpio]

Guthrie needs an out pitch.

Someone get him on a double date with Shuey.

[bird watcher]

Guthrie needs an out pitch.

Someone get him on a double date with Shuey.

He needed to not get squeezed tonight. They wouldn't give him the low strike at all. He was all over the strike zone but his balls to strike ratio wouldn't show it tonight.

[birdboy]

Orioles win!!!!! Whoopie!

[Hank Scorpio]

I don't think Guthrie needs anything except to continue to pitch for us for years to come. I love this guy's stuff, approach, everything. He continues to improve IMHO.

His stuff is dominant. These results aren't a fluke. I'm kind of shocked that there are people on this board who can't watch him pitch and realize that this guy is definitely not a one year wonder. 94 mph 2 seamers with great late movement AND good control are real tough to find. Add to that a 96-97 4 seamer, good slider, good curve, and ok change and this guy is an amazing find.

Agreed.

I'd still like to see him develop his changeup a little more, but this guy has filthy stuff. His two seamer just kills lefties, and I think his greatest asset is his brain. He knows how to set guys up. Very intelligent, an extremely underrated characteristic, IMO.

[Shopay]

I don't think Guthrie needs anything except to continue to pitch for us for years to come. I love this guy's stuff, approach, everything. He continues to improve IMHO.

His stuff is dominant. These results aren't a fluke. I'm kind of shocked that there are people on this board who can't watch him pitch and realize that this guy is definitely not a one year wonder. 94 mph 2 seamers with great late movement AND good control are real tough to find. Add to that a 96-97 4 seamer, good slider, good curve, and ok change and this guy is an amazing find.

I completely agree. People need to look at his stuff, it can be filthy.

[Moose Milligan]

I don't think Guthrie needs anything except to continue to pitch for us for years to come. I love this guy's stuff, approach, everything. He continues to improve IMHO.

His stuff is dominant. These results aren't a fluke. I'm kind of shocked that there are people on this board who can't watch him pitch and realize that this guy is definitely not a one year wonder. 94 mph 2 seamers with great late movement AND good control are real tough to find. Add to that a 96-97 4 seamer, good slider, good curve, and ok change and this guy is an amazing find.

Yeah, but good pitching knowledge be damned, he's still damned lucky.

[Sports Guy]

I don't think Guthrie needs anything except to continue to pitch for us for years to come. I love this guy's stuff, approach, everything. He continues to improve IMHO.

His stuff is dominant. These results aren't a fluke. I'm kind of shocked that there are people on this board who can't watch him pitch and realize that this guy is definitely not a one year wonder. 94 mph 2 seamers with great late movement AND good control are real tough to find. Add to that a 96-97 4 seamer, good slider, good curve, and ok change and this guy is an amazing find.

His fastball is very good, no doubt about it...But he doesn't seem to have the consistent velocity he had on it early on in the season.

His secondary pitches are very inconsistent IMO. They look very solid one game and mediocre in another. He needs another pitch that is more consistent...Hopefully Mazzone can work on this with him.

His command is off some right now...He is getting back to his more "normal" command..This month, he has a 3.7 BB rate(including tonight)...Since May 8(when he moved to the rotation), his BB rate was 1.23 heading into July.

Also, his strike % is lower....In May, it was 65%....In June it was 67%...This month it is 60%.

Teams definitely have a better approach versus him than they have and his command is waning some.

So, the question is, if he reverts back this MiL form and carries a walk rate in the 3-4 range, how much will that effect him?

BTW, i think Guthrie could have been killed tonight but he did a good job of getting out of trouble...Despite his command and not having the best stuff, he pitched well...I was more impressed by tonight than the Oakland start.

[SteveA]

What impresses me is he doesn't seem to even notice when he's in trouble. Runner on third and less than two outs? So what, he just gets a popuop. Jay Payton botches a play in the outfield behind him? Just shrug it off and get the next two outs against one of the more feared lineups in baseball.

90% of the guys who have started for the Orioles in the last decade would probalby have imploded when things got rough and the Yankees started putting men on base and fielders started screwing up behind them.

He's confident, in control, and his demeanor shows no concern whatsoever when he's in trouble. He's the anti-Ponson.

And man, in the first inning, his balls had some great movement on them. Best I've seen this side of Verlander. I was stuck in an interminable food line so I watched the first inning on the monitor before going out to the O's Hangout seats which were too far away to see movement on balls. But watching that first inning on the monitor, looked like that ball was really darting around.

And the radar gun reading on the fastball went UP as the game went along.

This guy is seriously the total package.