Mussina and Palmer

[RHall31]

Mussina won his last three starts in order to win 20 games, allowing 1 run in 17 innings pitched. So much for choking.

By the way, the last time Mussina had 19 wins, he left with the lead in his last two starts only to have the bullpen blow the save. So much for choking that time.

QUOTE]

Yeah. Can't blame it on a bullpen this time. The Yankee bullpen finished off his last 3 wins for him. 10 innings in 3 games including 2 saves by Riviera.

[Old#5fan]

Mussina won his last three starts in order to win 20 games, allowing 1 run in 17 innings pitched. So much for choking.

By the way, the last time Mussina had 19 wins, he left with the lead in his last two starts only to have the bullpen blow the save. So much for choking that time.

QUOTE]

Yeah. Can't blame it on a bullpen this time. The Yankee bullpen finished off his last 3 wins for him. 10 innings in 3 games including 2 saves by Riviera.

Yeah his superb bullpen including the best closer ever should get the kudos for enhancing his HOF chances immensely. I hope he remembers that in his induction speech.:mwahaha:

[nadecir]

I guess we will never know if Mussina really needed to win 20 to make the Hall of Fame. He is a shoo-in now for sure.

Only five pitchers have as many victories and a winning percentage as high as Mussina’s .638: Grover Cleveland Alexander, Christy Mathewson, Roger Clemens, Lefty Grove and Randy Johnson. We will never know if these kinds of numbers would have been good enough without a 20 win season to make the Hall of Fame.

If Mussina retires now, when can he be selected to the Orioles Hall of Fame?

[McLovin]

You actually may be right here.

The writers who vote on the Hall could very well have needed that.

The idea that the idea of that could be true is ridiculous. It is a meaningless number, especially in the era of 5 man rotations.

I agree. (I don't necessarily agree with the route Old#5Fan took to get there though.)

When he's up for enshrinement, you know it would have been said - "He never even won 20 games."

To me, Mussina is a HOF lock with or without a 20 win season, but he's a tier below Jim Palmer. I would not vote for him on the first ballot at this point.

[TakebackOPACY]

Yeah his superb bullpen including the best closer ever should get the kudos for enhancing his HOF chances immensely. I hope he remembers that in his induction speech.:mwahaha:

As Frobby mentioned, he had to win his last 3 starts to get to 20 wins.

Mussina's in those 3 starts: 17 ip; 0.52 ERA (1 earned run)

NYY bullpen in those 3 games: 10 ip; 3.60 ERA (4 earned runs)

So I agree his bullpen did a very good job, but let's not get carried away. Rivera did a great job, but in both Rivera's saves, Mussina handed the bullpen a 3-0 lead.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Why do you guys insist on wasting your time with this fella?

He clearly is egging people on at this point and it's my belief he is simply trolling now.

For Frobby to post about how Moose's last three starts he gave up 1 ER in 17 IP to refute the "choking" argument and for OldFan to come back and make a remark about how he needed the best closer in history to win 20 games, without conceding that Mussina, in fact, did NOT choke down the strech of this season to win 20 games, shows me that he's not interested in debate. He's interested in ruffling feathers.

This isn't even "point/counter-point" anymore (which it was for a while). It has devolved into "point/I'll ignore your point and type something that will hopefully tick you off."