Would you move the O's to the NL if you could?

[glenn__davis]

Leave us where we are. It's harder to win, but when we do it will be far more satisfying.

EDIT -- I'd also like to do away with divisions and IL play and play a completely balanced schedule, as others have mentioned.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Leave us where we are. It's harder to win, but when we do it will be far more satisfying.

I've addressed this. Who cares if it's more satisfying? Wouldn't you rather win sooner?

Do St. Louis fans not feel satisfied with 2006 because their team only won like 83 regular season games?

Let me ask you guys something, and I realize this is completely hypothetical.

But would you rather COMPETE* for a title playing in NL East by 2010 or COMPETE* for a title playing in the AL East by 2012?

*Meaning that as of late September we are only a handful of games out of a playoff spot.

[Pedro Cerrano]

EDIT -- I'd also like to do away with divisions and IL play and play a completely balanced schedule, as others have mentioned.

See this is what I don't get. People that are opposed to moving leagues but want to see divisions abolished?

I thought the whole point of staying where we are is to beat the big bad Red Sox and Yankees and have it feel all that much better when we do.

Getting rid of the unbalanced schedule is just as dismissive, IMO and is quite contradictory.

[glenn__davis]

But would you rather COMPETE* for a title playing in NL East by 2010 or COMPETE* for a title playing in the AL East by 2012?

AL East by 2012, no question.

[Pedro Cerrano]

AL East by 2012, no question.

Well, then we will just have to agree to disagree. I can't envision any scenario where I'd rather wait two more years for my team to compete.

[LookinUp]

Plus we can add in the fact that we won't necessarily have 19 "home" games a year that have a road flavor (although I'm sure Met fans would travel down I-95).

Baseball is a sport of tradition and rivalry. If we needed to be moved to better align divisions or leagues (a la the NFL) then I might be for it. However, requesting a move just because we think it's hard to win where we are is both "wussy" and misguided.

It's "wussy" for the obvious reasons. It's misguided because you're apparently operating under the assumption that things would be significantly different in different leagues. NEWS FLASH: THE ORIOLES STINK BECAUSE OF ORIOLES MANAGEMENT. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RED SOX OR YANKEES.

[glenn__davis]

See this is what I don't get. People that are opposed to moving leagues but want to see divisions abolished?

I thought the whole point of staying where we are is to beat the big bad Red Sox and Yankees and have it feel all that much better when we do.

Getting rid of the unbalanced schedule is just as dismissive, IMO and is quite contradictory.

It's not at all contradictory. I want those teams looking up at us in the standings, wondering how the pathetic Orioles ever managed to topple them and their gazillions of dollars. Sorry, beating the Mets or Cubs or whoever wouldn't mean nearly as much.

It's not that people don't "get" your argument. You want it to be easier to win. That's your argument. It's not very complicated. Many of us just don't agree with it.

[Icterus galbula]

I hate the Sox and Yanks but I love watching the O's play them. I want a winning season where we get to go through them.

Also, DH all the way.

Pedro Cerrano can also call me foolish if he wants to, thats how I feel

[davearm]

I think BAL has taken certain steps in the right direction, as an organization. That said, I decided last year that the '09 offseason would ultimately tell me whether or not the FO "gets it" -- that means utilization of resources, and not just following a TAM-style primarily building-from-the-bottom approach. In six months my answer could very well swith to staying in the AL East, but as of today I'd rather by in the NL East and playing in a less competitive environment (which better suits the current state of the franchise).

As an aside, it really pained me to vote "NL". As an ND guy I value tradition above just about everything when it comes to sports (yeah, rough decade for ND as well) and would love nothing more than to have a competitive organization in the AL East. I'm hoping this offseason will show BAL is willing to take the steps required to compete with three of the better run organizations in the game: TAM/NYA/BOS. Here's to me hopefully looking back at this vote with a slight blush, but I have to be honest with how I see things on 9/12/2008.

I don't think too many folks are putting NYY on their best-run organization lists anymore.

Best resources, sure. Best run, no.

I think it's telling that NYY was the team to plummet in the standings when a perennial also-ran in their division finally got their act together. I've long said that, by their own ineptitude, teams like BAL and TB have been complicit in the run of success BOS and NYY have enjoyed. It's not just the $$$ (although that of course helps). Having only one other solidly built and well-run team in your division was a lot of it.

[DrungoHazewood]

I've addressed this. Who cares if it's more satisfying? Wouldn't you rather win sooner?

Do St. Louis fans not feel satisfied with 2006 because their team only won like 83 regular season games?

Let me ask you guys something, and I realize this is completely hypothetical.

But would you rather COMPETE* for a title playing in NL East by 2010 or COMPETE* for a title playing in the AL East by 2012?

*Meaning that as of late September we are only a handful of games out of a playoff spot.

I don't buy the satisfying argument at all. Ask a Red Sox or Cubs fan born in 1925 or 1950 if delayed gratification is all it's stacked up to be. Do you think many Indians fans think their playoff appearances in the 90s were tainted because they'd been moved from the AL East to the Central?

[DrungoHazewood]

I don't think too many folks are putting NYY on their best-run organization lists anymore.

Best resources, sure. Best run, no.

I think it's telling that NYY was the team to plummet when a perennial also-ran in their division finally got their act together. I've long said that, by their own ineptitude, teams like BAL and TB have been complicit in the run of success BOS and NYY have enjoyed. It's not just he $$$ (although that of course helps). Having only one other solidly built and well-run team in your division was a lot of it.

But that goes both ways. When you have two teams that lap the rest of the league in revenues in one division "solidly built and well-run" can mean something entirely different than in a division where 83 wins can get you a ring. The Jays have had several years in the last decade where they'd probably have been a playoff team in almost any other division.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I hate the Sox and Yanks but I love watching the O's play them. I want a winning season where we get to go through them.

Also, DH all the way.

Pedro Cerrano can also call me foolish if he wants to, thats how I feel

Boy oh boy, is this put words in Pedro's mouth day?

I only said it was foolish if people thought we'd win sooner playing in the AL East versus the NL East. You're entitled to want to go through BOS and NYY if you want, even if it takes longer to win. It's just a position I do not agree with.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I don't buy the satisfying argument at all. Ask a Red Sox or Cubs fan born in 1925 or 1950 if delayed gratification is all it's stacked up to be. Do you think many Indians fans think their playoff appearances in the 90s were tainted because they'd been moved from the AL East to the Central?

No, I do not. I think many folks on here are blinded by the hatred towards NYY and BOS and want to win by going through them come hell or high water.

And while that slow process is happening, I'll gladly take my playoff appearances in the NL and be on my way.

*Edit: let me add that my disdain for the Yanks and Sox is well documented on this board and I feel it would be super sweet to win a division at their expense. I'd just rather not wait around and do it if I can win a division title sooner elsewhere.

[davearm]

But that goes both ways. When you have two teams that lap the rest of the league in revenues in one division "solidly built and well-run" can mean something entirely different than in a division where 83 wins can get you a ring. The Jays have had several years in the last decade where they'd probably have been a playoff team in almost any other division.

The point I'm making is that the fates of NYY and BOS would probably be much different if their division included well-run but resource-constrained teams such as OAK and MIN.

So NYY and BOS are where they are only partly because of their resources. A big part (IMO) is attributable to the floundering of the teams they play a whole lot every year.

But it's the $$$ that gets all the attention/blame.

[Fan4Life]

No, I do not. I think many folks on here are blinded by the hatred towards NYY and BOS and want to win by going through them come hell or high water.

And while that slow process is happening, I'll gladly take my playoff appearances in the NL and be on my way.

*Edit: let me add that my disdain for the Yanks and Sox is well documented on this board and I feel it would be super sweet to win a division at their expense. I'd just rather not wait around and do it if I can win a division title sooner elsewhere.

You seem to be part of the "I just want to win at any cost" crowd. Do you have any limits that you wouldn't go beyond to win the World Series?