2020 Round 4 (103): Coby Mayo - 3B - (HS)(Marjory Stoneman Douglas)

[ISU94]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Ok, dude. He was a steal based on the Orioles perspective.  Lets be clear about that, dude!  It's possible that no other team considered him a steal. Under your definition of a "steal"  there are probably 29 other teams claiming they got steals in this draft. So there, dude.  Also, I don't carw how stupid you sound dude. I'm still willing to hear you out.  Cool!

How stupid I sound? You just said they gave him the slot amount for close to a Comp pick/high 2nd round amount and are going off on a tangent because someone compared him to getting "another 1st round pick". 

Maybe don't get so caught up in semantics and realize guys like him fall who have high asking prices and age+tool wise, for where we landed him, it is a steal?

But go off.

[ScGO's]

23 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I mean, it was a historic World Series, one of the best performances ever.  It's not like he got there and choked.

Despite baseball not being set up like football and basketball where one or two players can transform a game, Bonds was as close as you could get to that in 2002.  IIRC, he was responsible for an incredibly large percentage of the Giants runs, I think it was some sort of record, but I can't find it.  You can say the Giants didn't win the World Series because of Bonds...maybe that's true.  But what's definitely true is that the Giants don't sniff the World Series WITHOUT Bonds.  

I understand your want for good, hard nosed ballplayers that are "yes sir, no sir,"  take coaching well, work hard and come back for more work each day with a smile on their face and don't grumble about anything.  We all want those types.  

But to say Bonds didn't win a WS or Harper won't win a WS cause they're jerks is a pretty shortsighted statement.  I mean Reggie Jackson was a jerk, he won quite a few World Series championships.  Pretty sure his teammates in NY hated him, too.  There have been several egotistical jerks that have won a World Series before.  

 

 

Its not that Bonds didn't perform, it was probably the fact that he was letting everyone else in the dugout know that he was performing.  When the going got tough in that WS, I can't help but imagine him yelling at his teammates and putting them down about how he was doing all the work.  I think it comes down to did Bonds or Harper motivate his teammates, encourage them, lift them up when they are down.  Or did he crap all over them when they couldn't do what he did.  Teammates have gone to blows with both Bonds and Harper.  If a teammate doesn't come through in a clutch moment, how does a Bonds or Harper react?  Does their reaction create resentment and kill motivation in the midst of these games?

[ScGO's]

Also, go to 6:28 in this video and watch what happened to Bonds when the going got tough.

 

[Moose Milligan]

12 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

Its not that Bonds didn't perform, it was probably the fact that he was letting everyone else in the dugout know that he was performing.  When the going got tough in that WS, I can't help but imagine him yelling at his teammates and putting them down about how he was doing all the work.  I think it comes down to did Bonds or Harper motivate his teammates, encourage them, lift them up when they are down.  Or did he crap all over them when they couldn't do what he did.  Teammates have gone to blows with both Bonds and Harper.  If a teammate doesn't come through in a clutch moment, how does a Bonds or Harper react?  Does their reaction create resentment and kill motivation in the midst of these games?

Dude, you're making things up to fit your narrative.  

[RZNJ]

28 minutes ago, ISU94 said:

How stupid I sound? You just said they gave him the slot amount for close to a Comp pick/high 2nd round amount and are going off on a tangent because someone compared him to getting "another 1st round pick". 

Maybe don't get so caught up in semantics and realize guys like him fall who have high asking prices and age+tool wise, for where we landed him, it is a steal?

But go off.

Keep up the great posts, dude.  Amazing stuff!

[RZNJ]

30 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

Its not that Bonds didn't perform, it was probably the fact that he was letting everyone else in the dugout know that he was performing.  When the going got tough in that WS, I can't help but imagine him yelling at his teammates and putting them down about how he was doing all the work.  I think it comes down to did Bonds or Harper motivate his teammates, encourage them, lift them up when they are down.  Or did he crap all over them when they couldn't do what he did.  Teammates have gone to blows with both Bonds and Harper.  If a teammate doesn't come through in a clutch moment, how does a Bonds or Harper react?  Does their reaction create resentment and kill motivation in the midst of these games?

Was Bonds a great teammate?  Probably not. Suggesting he and Harper were the reasons their teams couldn't win a WS? You lost me there.  Someone else brought up Reggie Jackson.  Splain that one!

[ISU94]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Keep up the great posts, dude.  Amazing stuff!

Great rebuttal, dude.

What a riveting argument from your side. Glad we could get this great of a discussion going. You're really making a strong case.

[ISU94]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Good luck with your problem. 

Yeah, definitely think I'm the one with the problem here.

Have a fantastic day...dude.

[joelala]

Coby Mayo is really bringing out the best in you two dudes today

[makoman]

3 hours ago, RZNJ said:

So, the slot amount for the #42 pick in the draft was 1.77M.  Theoretically,  any team who thought this kid was a 1st round talent would have just picked him which leads me to believe that most teams had him rated as a second round talent or lower. I'm not saying he's not a great pic. I'm just saying that calling him a 1st round talent is the company line.

Let's say you're the Twins, picking at 27, with slot of $2.5M. Maybe you really liked Mayo, maybe even at close to $2.5M, but you simply liked Aaron Sabato a bit better. By the time you get around to your pick again at 59 you only have a $1.19M slot. You have an idea of the price and don't feel like trying to make Mayo work with later underslot shenanigans so you go elsewhere.

It's easy to imagine a handful of teams liking a guy in the first round but due to having other guys higher on their board and the circumstances of their picks they just pick other people, and then by the time they pick again they feel their slot is too far away from the expected price so they go with an easier sign. And baseball prospects are so far away from the majors and rely so much on development that I think different teams have vastly different boards. Some teams could have a guy in the late 1st while others have him in the 3rd or 4th. I bet there's probably like 50 or 60 or even more players that at least one team thinks is a "first round talent."

Edited June 12, 2020 by makoman

[joelala]

2 minutes ago, makoman said:

Let's say you're the Twins, picking at 27, with slot of $2.5M. Maybe you really liked Mayo, maybe even at close to $2.5M, but you simply liked Aaron Sabato a bit better. By the time you get around to your pick again at 59 you only have a $1.19M slot. You have an idea of the price and don't feel like trying to make Mayo work with later underslot shenanigans so you go elsewhere.

It's easy to imagine a handful of teams liking a guy in the first round but due to having other guys higher on their board and the circumstances of their picks they just pick other people, and then by the time they pick again they feel their slot is too far away from the expected price so they go with an easier sign. And baseball prospects are so far away from the majors and rely so much on development that I think different teams have vastly different boards. Some teams could have a guy in the late 1st while others have him in the 3rd or 4th. I bet there's probably like 50 or 60 players that at least one team thinks is a "first round talent."

Very good breakdown. Thanks 

[ISU94]

38 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

That's the first step. You too.

The first step is realization. You will get there.

[Just Regular]

Short names tempt anagrams.

The COBY MAYO one I hope his play elicits is: C BOOM, YAY!

Adding to the 5-year goal list bringing this sign to Camden for the kiddo to wave at the right time - I guarantee getting on MASN with that.

[FlipTheBird]

8 hours ago, ScGO's said:

In the same way Barry Bonds never won a WS.  He is a cancer.  He just won't allow the relationships to grow on a team  No trust and bad vibes will prevent a team from truly gelling and winning when the going gets tough.

I brought this up a few years ago during a similar convo.  I worked with a guy who played with Bonds at AZ State.  https://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman%2F060504

This story is very accurate to what I was told about Bonds.  Bonds never won a WS and if you remember the 2002 WS, it was (in my opinion) Bonds' POS attitude that brought the team down and didn't allow them to win the big game. 

As far as Harper, remember when he won the HR Derby a few years back?  It was so obvious that he was in love with himself during that display that it was sickening.  He leaves the Nats, they immediately win the series.  One more Harper memory:

I wasn't at this showcase, but a few of my colleagues at the time were.  They were down in Tampa Bay doing a showcase/home run derby.  All the prospects were lined up on the foul line and my co-worker is going to each player with a camera asking them to state their name, school, and position. "I'm so and so, from such and such high school, Outfield."  She gets to Harper, he stares right at her and says "You know who I am."  This was a 16 year old kid talking to an adult in her late 20's at the time.  She looks at him and says, "ok? but we need this shot."  She had to go get help from one of the scouts just to get him to say a simple flipping sentence. 

I'll state it again, he'll never win a WS on account of he can't get out of the way of his own ego.

 

 

This is just incorrect, and honestly very archaic, spiteful thinking. The Giants were up 5-0 heading into the bottom of the 7th when the bullpen imploded. Barry Bonds doesn't pitch. He also wasn't the catcher. Or the manager. He was just standing in the OF watching it all play out. You're going to tell me that the meltdown was his fault? That's asinine.

Oh, and he slashed .356 / .581 / .978 that October, and an absolutely insane .471 / .700 / 1.294 in the World Series, quite literally carrying the Giants. I didn't particularly care for the guy, either, but your assertions are based entirely on YOUR own hate of Bonds and Harper. It's not an opinion, it's a vendetta.

And everything else aside, do you know how many truly awful people, including plenty of me-first types, have World Series rings? Hundreds. So don't try to argue that only "good guys" win.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

This is just incorrect, and honestly very archaic, spiteful thinking. The Giants were up 5-0 heading into the bottom of the 7th when the bullpen imploded. Barry Bonds doesn't pitch. He also wasn't the catcher. Or the manager. He was just standing in the OF watching it all play out. You're going to tell me that the meltdown was his fault? That's asinine.

Oh, and he slashed .356 / .581 / .978 that October, and an absolutely insane .471 / .700 / 1.294 in the World Series, quite literally carrying the Giants. I didn't particularly care for the guy, either, but your assertions are based entirely on YOUR own hate of Bonds and Harper. It's not an opinion, it's a vendetta.

And everything else aside, do you know how many truly awful people, including plenty of me-first types, have World Series rings? Hundreds. So don't try to argue that only "good guys" win.

The bullpen guys hated Bonds so much they threw the game to keep him from getting a ring.