I miss baseball, but...

[Ruzious]

2 hours ago, Number5 said:

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.

I think his name's Epiphany; not Virginia. 

[HowAboutThat]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Do you think they care? I mean honestly, the last people in the world either of these two care about are the fans. They are about getting as much of the pie for their constituents so they can keep getting paid their exorbitant salaries and keep their power and influence.

This is why I despair for Humanity.

We should care for others instead, we only care about ourselves. However, as someone mentioned in the next couple of comments, if the players in the owners don’t start caring about the fans they will lose money. Now, losing $500 million when you’ve got 2 billion in the bank is hardly something To drive you off the nearest cliff, But owners have stat monkeys too.  They know where the money is coming from and they know who is no longer spending. Baseball cannot afford $30 million per year for a player. They just can’t I don’t care how good Mike Trout is he’s not worth that much money because paying it will destroy the game. In order for me to go to the ball park you have to make me interested, and you have to make me think that my cost is Is going to be rewarded by my experience. And that’s not happening. It won’t happen until the players are making less, and the owners are making less, and the fans are paying less.

[survivedc]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

This is why I despair for Humanity.

We should care for others instead, we only care about ourselves. However, as someone mentioned in the next couple of comments, if the players in the owners don’t start caring about the fans they will lose money. Now, losing $500 million when you’ve got 2 billion in the bank is hardly something To drive you off the nearest cliff, But owners have stat monkeys too.  They know where the money is coming from and they know who is no longer spending. Baseball cannot afford $30 million per year for a player. They just can’t I don’t care how good Mike Trout is he’s not worth that much money because paying it will destroy the game. In order for me to go to the ball park you have to make me interested, and you have to make me think that my cost is Is going to be rewarded by my experience. And that’s not happening. It won’t happen until the players are making less, and the owners are making less, and the fans are paying less.

Losing 500 million out of 2billion is a quarter of your wealth.

I don’t know the numbers but all things considered baseball is pretty affordable. At least the most affordable major sport (MLS notwithstanding). Do you actively enjoy the game less because you know how much someone makes? Or is it just what you have to pay?

[HowAboutThat]

2 hours ago, survivedc said:

Losing 500 million out of 2billion is a quarter of your wealth.

I don’t know the numbers but all things considered baseball is pretty affordable. At least the most affordable major sport (MLS notwithstanding). Do you actively enjoy the game less because you know how much someone makes? Or is it just what you have to pay?

Think about it. The game experience is ~2.5 hours, for which I pay X directly, but in order to pay x I also have to pay parking, take time off for driving, which is an hour or so each way, if I want to eat or drink I have to pay triple cost to do so.

whatever that total amount is, it is not small. I could avoid 100% of that cost by staying home, and all I would lose is the in-person experience.

So the owner has to make the in-person experience inexpensive enough for me to consider it to be worthwhile, and currently it’s not. I go to 2-3 Rangers games per year but I’d happily go more if I didn’t have to pay $100 for the privilege.

thats what I mean.

so in answer to your question, it’s irrelevant what the players are being paid. What is relevant is what I am paying, and I am paying too much for what I get, and I get almost as much for free.

the owners have to charge less, make less, and the elite players have to make less, or the sport will die, because countless millions of future former baseball fans have the same reasoning I do.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Philip

[HowAboutThat]

2 hours ago, survivedc said:

Losing 500 million out of 2billion is a quarter of your wealth.

If you think of it as a percentage of the total, 25% is a lot, but what remains is 1.5 billion, so, no, I fail to have sympathy.

 Although, that is one of the reasons that we are in this situation. Not all billionaires are selfish, but very few of them are truly philanthropic. 

I don’t care about the elite baseball players. They have their money and don’t deserve it(I am well aware that somebody is worth whatever they can get and all that, but the fact is they’re not worth it because the game cannot support it) If the billionaires we’re willing to take less, give the minor leaguers a real wage, give the paying public better value, the game would not be in danger right now.

[survivedc]

58 minutes ago, Philip said:

If you think of it as a percentage of the total, 25% is a lot, but what remains is 1.5 billion, so, no, I fail to have sympathy.

 Although, that is one of the reasons that we are in this situation. Not all billionaires are selfish, but very few of them are truly philanthropic. 

I don’t care about the elite baseball players. They have their money and don’t deserve it(I am well aware that somebody is worth whatever they can get and all that, but the fact is they’re not worth it because the game cannot support it) If the billionaires we’re willing to take less, give the minor leaguers a real wage, give the paying public better value, the game would not be in danger right now.

I don’t care if you are sympathetic or not, and I don’t care about the billionaires, but you framed it as who cares if you’re worth 2 billion. Losing a quarter is losing a lot. 
 

If it’s irrelevant what the players are being paid why did you mention it? Every team sees some amount of decline when the team stinks. Did you go to many games between 2012-2016? I think I went to almost 30 games in 2016 and maybe 4 last year. 
 

Many of the most expensive stadiums have excellent attendance, I’m not sure cost is a huge factor there.

[HowAboutThat]

19 minutes ago, survivedc said:

I don’t care if you are sympathetic or not, and I don’t care about the billionaires, but you framed it as who cares if you’re worth 2 billion. Losing a quarter is losing a lot. 
 

If it’s irrelevant what the players are being paid why did you mention it? Every team sees some amount of decline when the team stinks. Did you go to many games between 2012-2016? I think I went to almost 30 games in 2016 and maybe 4 last year. 
 

Many of the most expensive stadiums have excellent attendance, I’m not sure cost is a huge factor there.

My point is that losing a quarter is not losing a lot if you’ve got plenty left over.

what the players are paid isn’t relevant at all, UNLESS it makes a trip to the game for me too expensive. Paying the players too much means I have to pay too much for beer hotdog parking, etc.

How much is too much? The price at which I decide to stay home and watch for free on TV.

Stadiums are NOT well attended, regardless of youth or excellence. Baseball attendance, regardless of the stadium, is going down. That’s undeniable. Manfred thinks the solution is to speed up the game. Manfred is very wrong.

[survivedc]

38 minutes ago, Philip said:

My point is that losing a quarter is not losing a lot if you’ve got plenty left over.

what the players are paid isn’t relevant at all, UNLESS it makes a trip to the game for me too expensive. Paying the players too much means I have to pay too much for beer hotdog parking, etc.

How much is too much? The price at which I decide to stay home and watch for free on TV.

Stadiums are NOT well attended, regardless of youth or excellence. Baseball attendance, regardless of the stadium, is going down. That’s undeniable. Manfred thinks the solution is to speed up the game. Manfred is very wrong.

Baseball attendance is not going down regardless of the stadium. 2018 saw I believe 7-8 teams with more than 90 losses (our guys included obv). Outside of that those stadiums I mentioned have seen increases or at least consistency in their high numbers. People want to see winners.

Between 2017 and 2018 the marlins saw a decline in 10k(!) fans per game. In Houston between 2015-2017 there was a 10k increase in fans. 
I enjoy the current playoff set up but it’s possible expanding the playoffs expands the fan base. Except in Tampa evidently.

[DrungoHazewood]

13 hours ago, Philip said:

This is why I despair for Humanity.

We should care for others instead, we only care about ourselves. However, as someone mentioned in the next couple of comments, if the players in the owners don’t start caring about the fans they will lose money. Now, losing $500 million when you’ve got 2 billion in the bank is hardly something To drive you off the nearest cliff, But owners have stat monkeys too.  They know where the money is coming from and they know who is no longer spending. Baseball cannot afford $30 million per year for a player. They just can’t I don’t care how good Mike Trout is he’s not worth that much money because paying it will destroy the game. In order for me to go to the ball park you have to make me interested, and you have to make me think that my cost is Is going to be rewarded by my experience. And that’s not happening. It won’t happen until the players are making less, and the owners are making less, and the fans are paying less.

It's hard to tell anyone in that equation that they have to take less, because before COVID the game was bringing in $10B.  And the only part I can argue about is the mandatory RSN fees that cable companies charge.  The rest of it is people willingly paying for baseball at the prices you don't like.  The owners and the players will make less money when the fans stop paying.  We'll see what happens this year and in the future.

You don't go tell Ford that a car should cost $15k instead of $30k and expect them to listen.  You just don't buy a Ford, you go buy a Hyundai or something.  If you don't like Mike Trout making $30M a year and you don't like the Royals being valued at $1B, don't spend on baseball and convince all your friends and acquaintances to do the same thing.

[DrungoHazewood]

7 hours ago, Philip said:

My point is that losing a quarter is not losing a lot if you’ve got plenty left over.

what the players are paid isn’t relevant at all, UNLESS it makes a trip to the game for me too expensive. Paying the players too much means I have to pay too much for beer hotdog parking, etc.

How much is too much? The price at which I decide to stay home and watch for free on TV.

Stadiums are NOT well attended, regardless of youth or excellence. Baseball attendance, regardless of the stadium, is going down. That’s undeniable. Manfred thinks the solution is to speed up the game. Manfred is very wrong.

Actually, it's the other way around.  People are willing to spend a lot of money on baseball, so the revenues exist to be able to pay players a lot of money.

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Actually, it's the other way around.  People are willing to spend a lot of money on baseball, so the revenues exist to be able to pay players a lot of money.

I think you will see there are going to be less and less people wiling to pay those prices while risking their safety by going into these cities. Perhaps TV viewership will improve and offset that loss. 

[HowAboutThat]

5 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

convince all your friends and acquaintances to do the same thing.

That’s the point. They ARE doing the same thing. That’s why we are lamenting decreasing attendance and trying to fix the game with ridiculous and useless gimmicks like pitch clocks and banning the shift. 

[DrungoHazewood]

18 minutes ago, Philip said:

That’s the point. They ARE doing the same thing. That’s why we are lamenting decreasing attendance and trying to fix the game with ridiculous and useless gimmicks like pitch clocks and banning the shift. 

It sounds to me like you're saying that baseball is broken, and all attempts to make it better will inevitably make it worse. So... I guess we're done here.

[webbrick2010]

I am the only sports fan in my family (Wife and three girls have no interest in any sport, where did I go wrong with my girls?)

So anytime I watch any sport on TV I feel a little guilty

The lack of sports bothered me for a while, but I'm over it. Seriously doubt if I will ever watch a complete baseball game ever again. (Years ago I attended 60+ games a year).

It will be a struggle to even get thru a highlight show.

Too many troubling things going on in USA to care about pro sports.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

I am the only sports fan in my family (Wife and three girls have no interest in any sport, where did I go wrong with my girls?)

So anytime I watch any sport on TV I feel a little guilty

The lack of sports bothered me for a while, but I'm over it. Seriously doubt if I will ever watch a complete baseball game ever again. (Years ago I attended 60+ games a year).

It will be a struggle to even get thru a highlight show.

Too many troubling things going on in USA to care about pro sports.

For me, the main point of pro sports is to give me a break from the more serious problems in the world and stresses of my daily life.    That’s why it sucked so bad to lose sports just when Covid was becoming a 24/7 topic.    Man, I could have used a break from that!

But now, three months later, I’ve found other distractions.    So while I want my sports back, I’ve realized that the world can go on without them.