What a bunch of sad-sack losers

[Sports Guy]

I was told straight out that the Orioles are out-scouted down there. $$$$ talk down there and you to be willing to dish some out for the top guys to get some return. Also, I was told most teams employ many more full-time scouts in the DR. It's not just the name, it's the effort along with $$$ that will turn things around in my opinion.

Yep...People get all warm and fuzzy because AM has improved things...Well, what proof is there of this?

And does an improvement mean we are anywhere close to where we need to be?

[Frobby]

I was told straight out that the Orioles are out-scouted down there. $$$$ talk down there and you to be willing to dish some out for the top guys to get some return. Also, I was told most teams employ many more full-time scouts in the DR. It's not just the name, it's the effort along with $$$ that will turn things around in my opinion.

I can't disagree with any of that. The O's have been missing the boat here big-time for years. All I was saying was that whatever improvements were made since AM took over may take a while to take hold. I wasn't saying that whatever AM has done is enough. I wouldn't know exactly what he has and hasn't implemented down there.

[Dipper9]

I think it's virtually impossible to say what MacPhail has done since those trades. The most important things that he should be doing are things that won't make headlines. Shoring up minor league instruction, getting international scouting to at least a respectable level, improving the way the system, as a whole, is run. Those things are far, far more important than having a contingency plan in a year where we're not going to compete anyway.

Before the year, wasn't there a quote from MacPhail that 2008 "wasn't even on his radar screen"? And weren't most of the posters on this board very glad to read that? From what I can tell, he has lived up to that quote.

We were very happy with the 2007 offseason and what MacPhail did. And no one expected a contender this season. But, when you are 5 games under at 62-67, and finish the season the way we are, there is plenty to be agrivated about. You can't just accept this terrible finish by saying "well, we didn't expect to win anyways." That is not acceptable.

[JTrea81]

We were very happy with the 2007 offseason and what MacPhail did. And no one expected a contender this season. But, when you are 5 games under at 62-67, and finish the season the way we are, there is plenty to be agrivated about. You can't just accept this terrible finish by saying "well, we didn't expect to win anyways." That is not acceptable.

I almost wonder if MacPhail wanted us to tank. He was sure this would be a painful season and it was just the opposite of that until the injuries started setting in to the pitching and then we had the revolving door at SS.

MacPhail never made a full effort to solve any of those problems. So here's a theory: maybe it was because he didn't want the club to succeed. Rather to justify his continuing rebuilding efforts to Angelos, the team would have to tank, so he made sure it did by making only half hearted efforts and not giving Trembley players that would actually help him win. Remember, Angelos overruled Gillick who wanted to blow up the team when the team was around .500 in 1996, so maybe MacPhail felt the need to prove to Angelos this team was horrible and to do that, he had to make sure they weren't going to finish anywhere near .500.

The lack of August trades was very anti-MacPhail like, so it almost looks like he was doing nothing on purpose.

If this theory is true, I expect a full blow up this offseason. I hope this theory is false, because I think we are almost rebuilt and will some huge signings and a few trades, we'll be contenders by 2010.

[DrungoHazewood]

I almost wonder if MacPhail wanted us to tank. He was sure this would be a painful season and it was just the opposite of that until the injuries started setting in to the pitching and then we had the revolving door at SS.

MacPhail never made a full effort to solve any of those problems. So here's a theory: maybe it was because he didn't want the club to succeed. Rather to justify his continuing rebuilding efforts to Angelos, the team would have to tank, so he made sure it did by making only half hearted efforts and not giving Trembley players that would actually help him win. Remember, Angelos overruled Gillick who wanted to blow up the team when the team was around .500 in 1996, so maybe MacPhail felt the need to prove to Angelos this team was horrible and to do that, he had to make sure they weren't going to finish anywhere near .500.

The lack of August trades was very anti-MacPhail like, so it almost looks like he was doing nothing on purpose.

If this theory is true, I expect a full blow up this offseason. I hope this theory is false, because I think we are almost rebuilt and will some huge signings and a few trades, we'll be contenders by 2010.

I guess that's not completely unbelievable, but I think it was more of MacPhail deciding to lose the battle to win the war. He wasn't going to trade anyone for below whatever threshold he set no matter what. If he didn't get his asking price for Huff or Millar or whoever he was willing to endure another September collapse. He's keeping his chips for deals that'll really help down the road, and not giving up anything for short term wins.

[El Gordo]

As regards the Sept. swoon I found this interesting in one of Ambers MASN blogs:

It was interesting to hear the head honcho's reasoning for waiting until the first week of September to announce the club was picking up Dave Trembley's option for 2009. It was especially intriguing because it sounded as if both parties knew the extension was a forgone conclusion weeks ago.

MacPhail was very honest when he said he foresaw the downturn the Orioles would take in September a while ago, and to his displeasure, his assumption came true. The Orioles are riding a seven-game losing streak.

MacPhail knew the slide was coming based on the fact that the Orioles lost the whole back end of their bullpen to injuries and trade. Also, he said he took a look at the upcoming schedule back in early August, and it was packed with AL East opponents.

It doesn't take a baseball executive to realize wins don't come easy in this division.

The circumstances allowed MacPhail to make the decision to wait to announce Trembley's extension. Last year, the Orioles' season fell apart, almost on cue, the day the interim tag was removed, and Trembley was named manager of the Orioles.

MacPhail didn't want that to happen again. He didn't want people to associate Trembley's knowledge of his own job security with a loss of drive or a change in the team's intensity that leads to losing.

MacPhail almost waited for the wheels to fall off the bus, then gave Trembley the extension as a show of support.

MacPhail made it clear; regardless of the team's performance recently, he was very impressed with how the team played hard under Trembley in the first two-thirds of the season.

Unfortunately, the lack of depth that has killed the Orioles over the past two weeks makes it pretty obvious it's going to take more than playing hard to salvage the end of this season. They simply don't have the pitching. That too MacPhail acknowledged.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1484314

[Frobby]

Interesting quote from Amber, thanks for that. And I guess I expected a slide, too. But not a 7-26 slide. Injuries and a tough schedule can only explain so much.

[glenn__davis]

We were very happy with the 2007 offseason and what MacPhail did. And no one expected a contender this season. But, when you are 5 games under at 62-67, and finish the season the way we are, there is plenty to be agrivated about. You can't just accept this terrible finish by saying "well, we didn't expect to win anyways." That is not acceptable.

Maybe you don't think it's acceptable, but I don't think MacPhail is too worried about it. I think he's made it pretty clear that the team results of the 2008 Baltimore Orioles are not high on his priority list. He said as much, and his actions have backed that up.

SG, I did not mean to make a "warm and fuzzy" post about MacPhail and the behind-the-scenes stuff. I have no idea what he's accomplished regarding that stuff during his tenure here. For all I know he could be in the office practicing his putting all day. I'm just saying that the real, truly important stuff will not necessarily be evidenced right away. Could he be doing more? I honestly don't know, but I don't think you can assume that the answer is "yes".

[Sports Guy]

Personally, the slide doesn't bother me. It was expected. This was a team I thought would win 75 games this year...Now it looks like we will be lucky to get 70...So, I didn't think it would be this bad but when you are talking about a few games over a 162 game schedule, that is nothing.

The problem is the players we are losing with...We aren't using guys who have a future with us...That is what bothers me.

[El Gordo]

Maybe you don't think it's acceptable, but I don't think MacPhail is too worried about it. I think he's made it pretty clear that the team results of the 2008 Baltimore Orioles are not high on his priority list. He said as much, and his actions have backed that up.

SG, I did not mean to make a "warm and fuzzy" post about MacPhail and the behind-the-scenes stuff. I have no idea what he's accomplished regarding that stuff during his tenure here. For all I know he could be in the office practicing his putting all day. I'm just saying that the real, truly important stuff will not necessarily be evidenced right away. Could he be doing more? I honestly don't know, but I don't think you can assume that the answer is "yes".

If by doing more you mean making trades every other day the way SG does in Fantasyland, then yes he could be doing more.:rolleyestf:

[ChaosLex]

I almost wonder if MacPhail wanted us to tank. He was sure this would be a painful season and it was just the opposite of that until the injuries started setting in to the pitching and then we had the revolving door at SS.

MacPhail never made a full effort to solve any of those problems. So here's a theory: maybe it was because he didn't want the club to succeed. Rather to justify his continuing rebuilding efforts to Angelos, the team would have to tank, so he made sure it did by making only half hearted efforts and not giving Trembley players that would actually help him win. Remember, Angelos overruled Gillick who wanted to blow up the team when the team was around .500 in 1996, so maybe MacPhail felt the need to prove to Angelos this team was horrible and to do that, he had to make sure they weren't going to finish anywhere near .500.

The lack of August trades was very anti-MacPhail like, so it almost looks like he was doing nothing on purpose.

If this theory is true, I expect a full blow up this offseason. I hope this theory is false, because I think we are almost rebuilt and will some huge signings and a few trades, we'll be contenders by 2010.

<img src = "http://www.nouvelordremondial.cc/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/its-a-conspiracy.jpg">

I was looking for an excuse to dust that one off.

[osfan83]

OK, so when will a season matter. What season should we expect to see at least 80 wins? Is 2009 to early to expect to see 80 wins? Is 2010 to early to ask for 80 wins?

Does next years record matter at all? Will you be happy is we win 60 games, but more young talent gets playing time?

What do you need to see next year to show something has been done?

[TommyD4207]

If SG ever started a thread that was as eloquent as Frobby's usual threads, that would be true hysteria.

I'm guessing either crstoner or SG didn't like this very much because of a childish insult I got as a rep comment.

Oh well, I got positive rep for it as well, so I guess it's a wash.