How much longer do we hang onto...

[Frobby]

If he accomplished everything we want done we'd be a contender next season. I personally see no reason, barring more bad luck with injuries, why we can't be an 80-85 win team next year and an 85-90 win team the year following. If we are too far off that mark, then I will feel he isn't doing his job.

Well, my wish list (see my first post in the thread) wasn't as ambitious as all that. I didn't say, "sign CC Cabathia, AJ Burnett and Mark Teixeira." I just gave a list of things I hoped he could accomplish generally:

He needs to improve shortstop, find some decent starters to build a bridge to our group that will arrive between late 2009 and early 2011, sign Nick Markakis long term, make some hard decisions about Roberts and Huff, find a way to eke some value out of Ramon Hernandez, come up with a new plan for back-up catcher, and decide whether to keep all of Scott, Reimold and Montanez or trade one to get something else we need.

Even if he accomplished everything I said I doubt we'd be contenders in 2009, but we'd be much better positioned to contend in 2010-11.

I'm not setting a specific win goal for next year. I do think if AM does a solid job this winter and we have average luck next year we can be in the range you've set.

[JTrea81]

Home is nice, and all that but who would you rather play for: your hometown team, which still kinda sucks, or a playoff team in sunny SoCal? Should we perhaps make a poll?

All depends on where Mrs. Teixeira and his kid are most comfortable. And there are rumors that his family doesn't like the Left Coast...

[geschinger]

All depends on where Mrs. Teixeira and his kid are most comfortable. And there are rumors that his family doesn't like the Left Coast...

With a 150-200m contract the Missus and the kid will be comfortable anywhere. If there is any concern about being close to family, Boras will get him a Kevin Brown perk into his contract.

[El Gordo]

Well, my wish list (see my first post in the thread) wasn't as ambitious as all that. I didn't say, "sign CC Cabathia, AJ Burnett and Mark Teixeira." I just gave a list of things I hoped he could accomplish generally:

Even if he accomplished everything I said I doubt we'd be contenders in 2009, but we'd be much better positioned to contend in 2010-11.

I'm not setting a specific win goal for next year. I do think if AM does a solid job this winter and we have average luck next year we can be in the range you've set.

My wish list, which I believe would get us to 80-85 W's is: extending Nick, extending or trading BRob, 2 middle rotation 4.50 ERA SP's, and 2 IF(a SS and one of the other 3 IF positions) depending on what we do with Roberts.

[Moose Milligan]

Let's say this is true....Does AM go from savior to disappointment in one year?

Hey, I haven't checked back since I posted that, but I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you.

To answer your question, yeah. I don't think it's that black n white though, but he'd definitely be headed down the disappointment road for sure. A bad offseason after the turd that's been August/September will just leave an even worse taste in everyones mouth.

This organization can't afford a poor offseason. Some more big changes need to be made.

[Sports Guy]

Hey, I haven't checked back since I posted that, but I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you.

To answer your question, yeah. I don't think it's that black n white though, but he'd definitely be headed down the disappointment road for sure. A bad offseason after the turd that's been August/September will just leave an even worse taste in everyones mouth.

This organization can't afford a poor offseason. Some more big changes need to be made.

Yep..Totally agree...A poor offseason will set us back even further.

[Skeptical]

Oh come on man. How about we will continue to give him credit for two great trades that added talent to a team that was top to bottom devoid of it.

Frank Wren, Syd Thrift, Flanagan, and Beattie took a once proud franchise and consistently added unproductive free agents, signed ineffective players to long-term deals, missed on one draft pick after another, and squandered the best stadium in baseball and one of the most loyal fan bases.

How long do you think we should give him credit for at least bringing some level of respectability back to our Orioles?

[osfan83]

Oh come on man. How about we will continue to give him credit for two great trades that added talent to a team that was top to bottom devoid of it.

Frank Wren, Syd Thrift, Flanagan, and Beattie took a once proud franchise and consistently added unproductive free agents, signed ineffective players to long-term deals, missed on one draft pick after another, and squandered the best stadium in baseball and one of the most loyal fan bases.

How long do you think we should give him credit for at least bringing some level of respectability back to our Orioles?[/QUOTE]

The O's have a level of respectability? Go ask anyone outside of Maryland if they give the O's any more respect now than they did 2 years ago.

[DrungoHazewood]

The O's have a level of respectability? Go ask anyone outside of Maryland if they give the O's any more respect now than they did 2 years ago.

Do you mean from casual fans? Sure, they only respect wins. But other GMs, writers, and die hards who pay attention to things like international scouting and the minor leagues definitely respect the O's more today than they have in probably a decade. If nothing else, MacPhail has brought a sense of competence to the organization that has been sorely lacking. They're no longer thought of as a front office that's likely to have their next move laughed at.

[RLB29]

Interesting thread. Since this is about giving credit or assigning blame to MacPhail, I have one question.

If MacPhail signs Tex this off season, and Tex pulls a Glenn Davis, does MacPhail get credit or blame?

[geschinger]

Interesting thread. Since this is about giving credit or assigning blame to MacPhail, I have one question.

If MacPhail signs Tex this off season, and Tex pulls a Glenn Davis, does MacPhail get credit or blame?

The key to how MacPhail should be judged with something like a Tex signing is whether or not it is likely to be a good or bad contract on the day of signing. If it's an outlandish deal that has little chance of working out in the O's favor, there should be no pass if injury derails him.

If he's signed at a deal relative to his production (even w/a normal FA premium) it'll have been a good signing. If fate steps in and he's Glenn Davis part deux he should get a pass.

[Frobby]

The key to how MacPhail should be judged with something like a Tex signing is whether or not it is likely to be a good or bad contract on the day of signing. If it's an outlandish deal that has little chance of working out in the O's favor, there should be no pass if injury derails him.

If he's signed at a deal relative to his production (even w/a normal FA premium) it'll have been a good signing. If fate steps in and he's Glenn Davis part deux he should get a pass.

Tex costs a second round pick. Davis cost Schilling, Harnisch and Schilling. There's no comparison. Even if Davis had been healthy and productive, that trade would have turned out horribly. (Though I admit I was for it at the time.)

[LookinUp]

Tex costs a second round pick. Davis cost Schilling, Harnisch and Finley. There's no comparison. Even if Davis had been healthy and productive, that trade would have turned out horribly. (Though I admit I was for it at the time.)

Fixed that for you.

[geschinger]

Tex costs a second round pick. Davis cost Schilling, Harnisch and Schilling. There's no comparison. Even if Davis had been healthy and productive, that trade would have turned out horribly. (Though I admit I was for it at the time.)

True, but I wasn't looking at it from the perspective of what we gave up for Davis, but rather simply whether or not MacPhail should be dragged over the coals for a Tex signing if his career took a Glenn Davis type turn.

[Frobby]

True, but I wasn't looking at it from the perspective of what we gave up for Davis, but rather simply whether or not MacPhail should be dragged over the coals for a Tex signing if his career took a Glenn Davis type turn.

No, because there is no reason to see it coming, just like there was no reason to see that Albert Belle was going to have a degenerative hip condition. I didn't like the Belle signing for other reasons, but the fact that he had a serious medical issue later was unforeseeable.

One of the problems with the Davis deal was that he was injured when we traded for him, and he didn't recover well from that injury. There's no issue like that with Tex.