Your Opinion- Hypothetical Player Stat Comparison

[ledzepp8]

Okay, so if the only reason Pena has more rbi's is more opporunities wouldn't the fact he hits only 247 as opposed to 300 like Markakis make it more likely he would get the same or even lower rbi' totals than Nick? Afterall he is making a lot more outs? Since this isn't the case, I postulate he is more efficient in doing more out of less. Nobody has disputed this point directly because you can't.

There's no if. That is the reason why he has more RBIs. As for the rest of your post, I really have no idea what you're asking.

[snatch311]

He's not superior. If you compare what Pena is doing to what Markakis is doing to help his team win games. Pena is superior in utlizing his hits to maximum potential. Markakis is not over-performing in anything but Pena is.

So, Tony Batista > Pena > Markakis

[Old#5fan]

There's no if. That is the reason why he has more RBIs. As for the rest of your post, I really have no idea what you're asking.

Let me slow this down for you. If a guy gets 10 more opportunites for an rbi but bats 100 do you really think he will get more rbi's than a guy who bats 300 but gets 10 fewer opportunities? That makes no sense at all.

ERGO:

Pena is batting 50 points lower so you have to allow for that in figuring he is not going to capitalize on his more opportunites as much as Markakis should when he hits 300. So just because he gets more opportunites doesn't mean he will produce more. It is all relative to his abiity to actually get a hit as opposed to an out or drive in a run as opposed to not doing so.

[Old#5fan]

So, Tony Batista > Pena > Markakis

I think Batista was a much maligned (unfairly I might add) player who did make the most out of his hits. If he could have hit average wise like Markakis he would have drive in 150 runs easily, not 87.

[snatch311]

I think Batista was a much maligned (unfairly I might add) player who did make the most out of his hits. If he could hit average wise like Markakis he would have drive in 150 runs easily.

What offensive team wins?

9 Nick Markakis

9 Carlos Penas

[Old#5fan]

What offensive team wins?

9 Nick Markakis

9 Carlos Penas

We are comparing players not teams here.

[Lt Melmo]

Two can play this game. Since this was used against my position I will now use it against yours. How do you know that the reason Pena only scored 76 times as opposed to Markakis scoring 106 wasn't due to poor hitting by the batters after him? I mean when Markakis batted second he had Huff ( a man with 108 rbi's and counting) hitting behind him. Of course he will score a lot of runs!!!!

This is your argument; if you want to know or tell me the answer to this, YOU figure it out.

If you want me to respond to your un-backed up theory, sure. You know why Pena also doesn't score more runs? He can't run the bases. Markakis can. Markakis also hit twice as many doubles. Markakis also got on base 51 more times. That's a lot of times.

[ledzepp8]

I am not saying Markakis is worse, but he should produce way more if he was as efficient at doing more with less as Pena is. In other words Pena does more with less and Markakis less with more (hits that is).

DO YOU KNOW WHAT EFFICIENT MEANS??!!

Your post doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

[snatch311]

We are comparing players not teams here.

Ok, but If you could field a lineup that was composed of 9 hitters identical to Markakis or 9 hitters identical to Pena, which lineup scores more runs?

[Lt Melmo]

But you are overlooking the fact he hits 50 points lower than Markakis, so your theory only makes since if he hit about the same average-wise. You are discounting this completely. You have to realize that even with more opportunities the fact remains he is going to fail more often than a guy hitting 50 points higher , yet he seemingly hasn't!

The fact he is making an out much more often yet still producing rbi's at the pace he has indicates he is doing more with less. Markakis to me ,seems to be doing less with more hits and a higher average than Pena. That is all I am postulating here.

And you are completely overlooking the fact that I showed you in my first post that Markakis is more efficient at driving in his runners than Pena is.

Pena is doing more with less.

Markakis is doing more with more.

[ledzepp8]

But you are overlooking the fact he hits 50 points lower than Markakis, so your theory only makes since if he hit about the same average-wise. You are discounting this completely. You have to realize that even with more opportunities the fact remains he is going to fail more often than a guy hitting 50 points higher , yet he seemingly hasn't!

The fact he is making an out much more often yet still producing rbi's at the pace he has indicates he is doing more with less. Markakis to me ,seems to be doing less with more hits and a higher average than Pena. That is all I am postulating here.

Tell us what you think efficiency means. You do realize that there are other ways to get an RBI besides getting a hit? Don't you?

[ledzepp8]

Let me slow this down for you. If a guy gets 10 more opportunites for an rbi but bats 100 do you really think he will get more rbi's than a guy who bats 300 but gets 10 fewer opportunities? That makes no sense at all.

ERGO:

Pena is batting 50 points lower so you have to allow for that in figuring he is not going to capitalize on his more opportunites as much as Markakis should when he hits 300. So just because he gets more opportunites doesn't mean he will produce more. It is all relative to his abiity to actually get a hit as opposed to an out or drive in a run as opposed to not doing so.

The only world that this makes no sense at all is in your's...a world where apparently the only way to get an RBI is with a hit.

[ledzepp8]

We are comparing players not teams here.

Wow. Your understanding of statistics is amazing.

[snatch311]

Wow. Your understanding of statistics is amazing.

He basically tacitly admitted that he would take the Markakis team over the Pena team. Which says that he takes Markakis over Pena.

[ledzepp8]

And you are completely overlooking the fact that I showed you in my first post that Markakis is more efficient at driving in his runners than Pena is.

Pena is doing more with less.

Markakis is doing more with more.

Actually to flip this illogical argument around: Doesn't the fact that Markakis only has 15 fewer RBIs but with fewer opportunities illustrates that Markakis is in fact the one "doing more with less"?