Roch: The Pitching Coming Over the Hill

[Frobby]

Was the Cavalry really that bad?

Arrieta - 25.6 rWAR

Britton - 14.2

Tillman - 8.7 (was 12.0 before his final two seasons)

Hernandez 4.5

Bergesen 2.9

Matusz 2.1

To me really Matusz was the only big disappointment, plus the fact that we weren’t able to unleash Arrieta’s talent.

 

 

 

[sevastras]

I am going to bury this in this thread instead of a new one, since there isn’t a game thread currently. Means has a sticky substance in his glove. 3rd inning after the strikeout, he got a new ball. They show him on the mound and he is pressing his fingers to the top of the glove and when he presses them to his thumb after, you can see the stick. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, sevastras said:

I am going to bury this in this thread instead of a new one, since there isn’t a game thread currently. Means has a sticky substance in his glove. 3rd inning after the strikeout, he got a new ball. They show him on the mound and he is pressing his fingers to the top of the glove and when he presses them to his thumb after, you can see the stick. 

Trevor Bauer thinks 70% of MLB pitchers use something, and that was before he started this season.  (Yes he is using something, check out his spin rate)

Unless you are pretty stupid about it, or have a GM playing manager on the opposing side, no one cares.

[sevastras]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Trevor Bauer thinks 70% of MLB pitchers use something, and that was before he started this season.  (Yes he is using something, check out his spin rate)

Unless you are pretty stupid about it, or have a GM playing manager on the opposing side, no one cares.

I get it. His next pitch was as nasty of a curve as any out there. I just don’t understand why sometimes it is ok and some times not. So if you arm is clearly brown and you are light skinned, then that is bad? If your hat is worn out in a spot on you bill and you are constantly touching it, then that is ok? Little something in the glove is fine? 
I was watching that game were it stuck to his chest protector and he was scrambling looking for it. That is ok?

As long as there isn’t a nail file in your back pocket?  I remember something a couple of years ago where some hitter said he preferred if pitchers used something at the beginning of the year when it is cold so they could grip it better and less chance of getting hit. 
Only reason I mention it is because Means stuff is looking better than it has all year. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, sevastras said:

I get it. His next pitch was as nasty of a curve as any out there. I just don’t understand why sometimes it is ok and some times not. So if you arm is clearly brown and you are light skinned, then that is bad? If your hat is worn out in a spot on you bill and you are constantly touching it, then that is ok? Little something in the glove is fine? 
I was watching that game were it stuck to his chest protector and he was scrambling looking for it. That is ok?

As long as there isn’t a nail file in your back pocket?  I remember something a couple of years ago where some hitter said he preferred if pitchers used something at the beginning of the year when it is cold so they could grip it better and less chance of getting hit. 

For the most part I think you have to be so obvious that they can't ignore it to have any repercussions.

I don't get why hitters don't care. 

I get the whole "You don't want a ball getting away and coming at your head at 95" thing but is it that much or a risk?

But just look at Bauer this season:

 

That's a huge increase and it improves all of their pitches.

[sevastras]

Continuing the theme of the thread- 

Arrieta was never going to be what he was for the Cubs for the Os. 
Matusz was pretty dang good for a short period. He lost the feel for that nasty change right around the ttp came into play and never got the feel back and his head got messed up.

Both didn’t live up for my expectations of them compared to their talent. 
Gausman-Super stuff, just had some control issues(ttp?) And lacked the know how if pitching imo. He always depended on the fastball coming up and got to the bigs to find out those guys can sit on it and hit it hard. 
Bundy- Works super hard. Knows how to pitch, unfortunately his arm didn’t hold up but still has the stuff and know how to be a pretty good pitcher. 
 

[Can_of_corn]

I think part of the issue with Gausman is he just couldn't develop a good breaking ball.  Hard to be a starter as just a FB/Change guy.  One year it'd be a curve, the next a slider than a slurve.  None of them were a reliable swing and miss pitch.

[sevastras]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

For the most part I think you have to be so obvious that they can't ignore it to have any repercussions.

I don't get why hitters don't care. 

I get the whole "You don't want a ball getting away and coming at your head at 95" thing but is it that much or a risk?

But just look at Bauer this season:

 

That's a huge increase and it improves all of their pitches.

So in 2018 he said pine tar could increase his spin rate by 400 if he didn’t have morals and then two years later his spin rate increase by 400? 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, sevastras said:

So in 2018 he said pine tar could increase his spin rate by 400 if he didn’t have morals and then two years later his spin rate increase by 400? 

He's a free agent.

[sevastras]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think part of the issue with Gausman is he just couldn't develop a good breaking ball.  Hard to be a starter as just a FB/Change guy.  One year it'd be a curve, the next a slider than a slurve.  None of them were a reliable swing and miss pitch.

Just a guess, but I think he lacks/lacked the work ethic of other guys. Slider/curve/slurve indicates to me he is being lazy with his arm slot instead of working to dial it in. He got to the majors on the fastball and ate a sleeve of donuts in between innings. Bundy worked out in heated workout room with a hoodie on and as a kid dug holes to fill in other holes in an endless cycle while being a nutrition nut. Also punching bags and weighted balls. Orioles put an end to his weighted balls and his cutter. Shortly after, he starts getting hurt. I wonder about correlation vs causation with him, but it is impossible to know. I wonder what his personal candid opinion is of all of that. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, sevastras said:

Just a guess, but I think he lacks/lacked the work ethic of other guys. Slider/curve/slurve indicates to me he is being lazy with his arm slot instead of working to dial it in. He got to the majors on the fastball and ate a sleeve of donuts in between innings. Bundy worked out in heated workout room with a hoodie on and as a kid dug holes to fill in other holes in an endless cycle while being a nutrition nut. Also punching bags and weighted balls. Orioles put an end to his weighted balls and his cutter. Shortly after, he starts getting hurt. I wonder about correlation vs causation with him, but it is impossible to know. I wonder what his personal candid opinion is of all of that. 

I think that if anything all the stuff Bundy did prior to be drafted (including obscene pitch counts) was more likely to be a cause.

I'll agree that it is impossible to know.

[HowAboutThat]

And as the pitching arrives, the offense and defense depart.

[Orioles0615]

On 9/11/2020 at 8:19 AM, Moose Milligan said:

This is a good piece but I'm scarred for life by "The Cavalry."  

I won't call it a fluff piece, but it is...and they talk about the Bowie site and how everything there is amazing and everyone's doing great.  I hope it's true.

Yea first it was Matusz, Arrieta, Tillman, Britton. (which to be fair all turned out decently well)

 

Then it was Bundy, Gausman, Harvey

 

 

[Moose Milligan]

41 minutes ago, andrewochs615 said:

Yea first it was Matusz, Arrieta, Tillman, Britton. (which to be fair all turned out decently well)

 

Then it was Bundy, Gausman, Harvey

 

 

Matusz turned out well but only if he was facing David Ortiz.  Arrieta turned out well for someone else.  Tillman was good, Britton was good too but unfortunately we didn't hold on to him.