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Rene88

By Rene88
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webbrick2010 Hangout Veteran Council

webbrick2010

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That's nice hindsight. No Gm anywhere trades the all-time team leader in saves after a year like JJ's 2012. Especially after making the playoffs and having a winning season on a non cash strapped team for the first time in a decade and a half. Yes your way would have been better. It is not necessary to cry over the spilled milk. It would have been good for you and I to play the lottery if we knew tomorrow's winning combination.

Well you can accuse me of hindsight but I was beating the drum for Johnson to be traded after he eliminated us from the playoffs... and I have been beating the drum since September of last year for Hardy to be traded.

We will keep Hardy for too long... he will have a down year this year.... we won't feel that he is worth a QO... and he will be traded for not much next Spring.

I don't understand why this organization is turning a top 4 first round SS pick into a 3B to keep around a soon to be in steep decline SS.

None of this is hindsight... most everyone else thinks Hardy is integral to us being a playoff team this year and we should keep him like we kept JJ last year.

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Babypowder Hangout Veteran Council

Babypowder

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Well you can accuse me of hindsight but I was beating the drum for Johnson to be traded after he eliminated us from the playoffs... and I have been beating the drum since September of last year for Hardy to be traded.

We will keep Hardy for too long... he will have a down year this year.... we won't feel that he is worth a QO... and he will be traded for not much next Spring.

I don't understand why this organization is turning a top 4 first round SS pick into a 3B to keep around a soon to be in steep decline SS.

None of this is hindsight... most everyone else thinks Hardy is integral to us being a playoff team this year and we should keep him like we kept JJ last year.

How do we trade a free agent?

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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Well you can accuse me of hindsight but I was beating the drum for Johnson to be traded after he eliminated us from the playoffs... and I have been beating the drum since September of last year for Hardy to be traded.

We will keep Hardy for too long... he will have a down year this year.... we won't feel that he is worth a QO... and he will be traded for not much next Spring.

I don't understand why this organization is turning a top 4 first round SS pick into a 3B to keep around a soon to be in steep decline SS.

None of this is hindsight... most everyone else thinks Hardy is integral to us being a playoff team this year and we should keep him like we kept JJ last year.

I simply said that it was not appropriate for the team at that time. You would never have sold the tickets you did last season had you traded their closer after finally winning. There was not proper way to handle that. The result proved your guess to be correct. It was not a possible situation.

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Bahama O's Fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Bahama O's Fan

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I simply said that it was not appropriate for the team at that time. You would never have sold the tickets you did last season had you traded their closer after finally winning. There was not proper way to handle that. The result proved your guess to be correct. It was not a possible situation.

Depending on what you got back, you might have had no problem selling tickets.

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mcgraw238 Major Leaguer

mcgraw238

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I simply said that it was not appropriate for the team at that time. You would never have sold the tickets you did last season had you traded their closer after finally winning. There was not proper way to handle that. The result proved your guess to be correct. It was not a possible situation.

Plenty of people would have been happy and plenty of tickets sold if JJ was flipped for Porcello like some of us talked about since we heard Porcello was being shopped and the Tigers needed a closer. You did know the winning lottery numbers as they were 1/11, but DD chose not to play. Plenty of GM's out there would have made such a move, we chose status quo last offseason. It's history and time to turn the page but DD missed an opportunity to sell high. I hope its a rare miss.

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mcgraw238 Major Leaguer

mcgraw238

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I don't think the presence of a particular guy in the bullpen is going to drive ticket sales.

I agree. The success of 2012 drove ticket sales. JJ's success was a big part of 2012 but roster management never ends. I doubt the Tigers wanted to trade Fister but you have to make budget driven moves.

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blid Major Leaguer Rising Star

blid

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I simply said that it was not appropriate for the team at that time. You would never have sold the tickets you did last season had you traded their closer after finally winning. There was not proper way to handle that. The result proved your guess to be correct. It was not a possible situation.
I agree with weams here on the Johnson front, not necessarily about the tickets, but the guy had a fantastic season that year. We can say oh, he was subpar in a couple playoffs games, I think we need to dump him. But a GM can't really afford to make that deal and give up on a valuable closer who was a big part of a winning team based on just a feeling like that.
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notyourbuddy All-Star

notyourbuddy

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I know I'm not supposed to root for good things to happen to our direct Wild Card competition, but I feel bad for JJ. Having to watch an ex-Oriole (one who was a good teammate and a good guy) go through this is just brutal.

Reminds me of watching Koji's performance with Texas in '11 and how everyone in that city and organization just wanted him to go away.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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I agree with weams here on the Johnson front, not necessarily about the tickets, but the guy had a fantastic season that year. We can say oh, he was subpar in a couple playoffs games, I think we need to dump him. But a GM can't really afford to make that deal and give up on a valuable closer who was a big part of a winning team based on just a feeling like that.

He did have fantastic results in 2012 but anyone looking past the the first level of information could see that it was unsustainable.

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mcgraw238 Major Leaguer

mcgraw238

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I agree with weams here on the Johnson front, not necessarily about the tickets, but the guy had a fantastic season that year. We can say oh, he was subpar in a couple playoffs games, I think we need to dump him. But a GM can't really afford to make that deal and give up on a valuable closer who was a big part of a winning team based on just a feeling like that.

Who said anything about dumping him? I think the premise is more along the lines that he had a huge season that he was unlikely to ever duplicate so flip him while his value is high so you can add another asset to the mix.

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mcgraw238 Major Leaguer

mcgraw238

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I know I'm not supposed to root for good things to happen to our direct Wild Card competition, but I feel bad for JJ. Having to watch an ex-Oriole (one who was a good teammate and a good guy) go through this is just brutal.

Reminds me of watching Koji's performance with Texas in '11 and how everyone in that city and organization just wanted him to go away.

I agree with you here. I don't like that JJ is struggling. However, as much as I like Koji I wish he would struggle a bit.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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Who said anything about dumping him? I think the premise is more along the lines that he had a huge season that he was unlikely to ever duplicate so flip him while his value is high so you can add another asset to the mix.

Yea, even I wanted some degree of value back after the 2012 season.

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  • Posts

    • Aristotelian
      The Achilles heel for this team is the bullpen

      By Aristotelian · Posted

      Agreed, they were trying to preserve Burnes there. The division still hadn't been clinched, so try to win the game but within the rest management plan for your ace. Hopefully the fact they used Cano means there aren't any major concerns about his rest, but now you have to wonder.
    • interloper
      9/26: A Weak Effort In New York

      By interloper · Posted

      Yeah both Burnes and Hyde said after the game it's because Burnes is going on regular rest to start the first WC game and so he was shortened up a bit. 
    • Frobby
      The Achilles heel for this team is the bullpen

      By Frobby · Posted

      You seem to pine for guys in AAA and then (with one notable exception) judge them very harshly if they don’t perform well instantly in the majors.  This is not the time to start experimenting with Young, and that’s no reflection on him at all IMO.
    • Bemorewins
      The Achilles heel for this team is the bullpen

      By Bemorewins · Posted

      I agree with the part about Elias. He needs to operate with a little more humility (regarding his bullpen approach) and pivot in the offense regarding how he puts a pen together. He needs to get away from the arrogant thinking in believing that we are always "the smartest guys in the room" and can fix other teams junk/unwanted parts. That is fine to do some time (regardless of how much you spend). But you can't construct an entire pen made of castoffs and almost no guys with elite/power/strikeout stuff. Yes it worked great with Felix, Perez/Lopez in 22', Cano in 23'. But the problem is that we are in '24. And some of those lightening in the bottle guys have reverted back to what their talent says that they are - mediocre. We have a pen full of decent/league average/mediocre arms. That's not what you really want heading into October.
    • e16bball
      DH - O'Hearn v. Kjerstad

      By e16bball · Posted

      Also, since there’s another interesting discussion going on here, I think it’s time for Hyde to have an uncomfortable conversation with Adley. I hate everything I’m about to say, because Adley is my favorite Oriole. But we have to acknowledge where we are.  Over the last few months, the only sensible approach with Adley — other than the IL, which apparently he hasn’t been eligible for — has been to keep penciling him into the lineup almost everyday and hoping he figures it out. He has a track record of consistent lifelong excellence, so it’s felt like just a matter of time before he busts the slump and rights the ship.  But he hasn’t. Adley’s line over the last 3 months, almost half a season now, is so bad that it requires a double check to be sure it’s right: .186 / .274 / .278 / .552. A 61 wRC+. And -0.2 fWAR. He has been a below replacement player for 3 months now. He has been the 3rd-worst qualified hitter in baseball over that span, and the 7th-worst overall qualified player. The “qualified” part does make it a little misleading — most of the guys who’ve been this bad have long since been benched. I think you have to consider McCann, at least in Burnes’s starts. He’s been hitting a bit (114 wRC+ since the ASB), and even if he wasn’t on a bit of a heater, his normal baseline is still better than a .552 OPS. If you do continue to play him full-time, you just can’t treat him like he’s *Adley* anymore. You have to treat him like the bad backup catcher he’s been. He has to hit at the bottom of the order. The very bottom. There’s really no reasoned basis upon which you could want to have him get more ABs than guys like Mullins or Urias right now. And you have to PH for him liberally — whichever of Kjerstad/O’Hearn doesn’t start should be looking at Adley’s slot as their most likely opportunity.  As I said, I love Adley. It’s been brutal watching him. But there are 25 other guys on the team who deserve the best shot to win a ring. And that means you can’t just keep stubbornly handing all the ABs to a guy who is desperately lost, on the blind hope that he’ll suddenly find it. 
    • Fiver6565
      The Achilles heel for this team is the bullpen

      By Fiver6565 · Posted

      I didn’t post it in the game thread no, but I’m also not looking for credit. I thought it was a bad move at the time to remove Burnes in the first place, and choosing Cano at that point after he’d been bombed by those exact hitters, felt odd and off to me. The only real defense I could come up with was who if not Cano?  But taking Burnes out is essentially admitting that winning that night wasnt your top priority anyway, so why not also rest Cano, who you absolutely need in the playoffs and has pitched a lot?  I just didn’t get it in real time, and I still don’t. 
    • Tony-OH
      9/26: A Weak Effort In New York

      By Tony-OH · Posted

      I was at a meeting and came out to the Orioles down 1-0. I looked away for what seemed like a minute and it was 5-0, then 7-0. Do we know why Burnes was lifted after just 69 pitches after 5 innings? Was he hurt? Do we know why Cano was brought into the game in the 6th (Have to imagine his adrenaline may not have been as flowing at that stage of the game)?  Obviously the bullpen was pretty horrific last night, but could some of this be because Hyde was using guys who typically are late in game relievers in the 6th inning?  

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