Tracking Ex Oriole Thread

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Wasn’t it Valera vs Alberto. I think we kept the better player. 

I don’t know how we were going to keep Cortes last year when we needed fresh arms from the minors everyday. It would be impossible for us to keep a rule 5 pitcher, even with a 13 man staff. Just the reality of where we’re at. 

The bigger question with Cortes was whether we tried to get him to change his approach (which involves throwing from several different arm angles and using differing degrees of hesitation in his windup), and therefore took away what makes him effective.    There’s no question his approach was different while we had him; whether that was our coaches, or a decision he made, isn’t clear.     But decent chance it was our coaches.   Cortes is back to going what he does, and it’s worked pretty decently.  

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The bigger question with Cortes was whether we tried to get him to change his approach (which involves throwing from several different arm angles and using differing degrees of hesitation in his windup), and therefore took away what makes him effective.    There’s no question his approach was different while we had him; whether that was our coaches, or a decision he made, isn’t clear.     But decent chance it was our coaches.   Cortes is back to going what he does, and it’s worked pretty decently.  

Isn't he also throwing harder?

[DrungoHazewood]

11 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

On a side note, Tyler Wilson is one of the better SP in the KBO again. That’s two seasons of success for him there in an offense friendly league. I could see him getting a shot with a MLB club this upcoming ST. He’s probably at least on par with Wojo and Eshelman. 

I think they might be using the old AAA balls in Korea this year, as scoring is off almost a run a game.  This year's KBO is averaging 4.7 runs/game, compared to 4.8 in the majors.  Last year the KBO was over 5.5 runs/game.  And the Korean league is roughly the talent level of AA ball - wider spread, but the average talent is probably on that level.  

I don't think Tyler Wilson's 2.62 ERA and 6.2 K/9 in more-or-less a AA league is terribly impressive.

And Hyun Soo Kim is having a poor year, only OPSing .800.  Last year he hit .362/.415/.589.  Five homers so far this year, compared to 20 last year.

[sportsfan8703]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The bigger question with Cortes was whether we tried to get him to change his approach (which involves throwing from several different arm angles and using differing degrees of hesitation in his windup), and therefore took away what makes him effective.    There’s no question his approach was different while we had him; whether that was our coaches, or a decision he made, isn’t clear.     But decent chance it was our coaches.   Cortes is back to going what he does, and it’s worked pretty decently.  

You’re 100% right. Unfortunately, we still had some illusions of competing last year to begin the season and I think the coaches had good intentions. They were trying to get MLB immediate results the best way they knew how. I guess it was a gamble to them not to just let him stick with what he had been doing for years. 

The pressure of “competing” with such a small margin for error made the FO make a lot of dumb mistakes. 

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think they might be using the old AAA balls in Korea this year, as scoring is off almost a run a game.  This year's KBO is averaging 4.7 runs/game, compared to 4.8 in the majors.  Last year the KBO was over 5.5 runs/game.  And the Korean league is roughly the talent level of AA ball - wider spread, but the average talent is probably on that level.  

I don't think Tyler Wilson's 2.62 ERA and 6.2 K/9 in more-or-less a AA league is terribly impressive.

And Hyun Soo Kim is having a poor year, only OPSing .800.  Last year he hit .362/.415/.589.  Five homers so far this year, compared to 20 last year.

Kim is just tired from all the playing time he got last year. 

[Enjoy Terror]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

Rickard is killing the PCL.

400/443/618/1061   He has scored 16 runs in 15 games.

Change of scenery guy

[HowAboutThat]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Wasn’t it Valera vs Alberto. I think we kept the better player. 

I don’t know how we were going to keep Cortes last year when we needed fresh arms from the minors everyday. It would be impossible for us to keep a rule 5 pitcher, even with a 13 man staff. Just the reality of where we’re at. 

On a side note, Tyler Wilson is one of the better SP in the KBO again. That’s two seasons of success for him there in an offense friendly league. I could see him getting a shot with a MLB club this upcoming ST. He’s probably at least on par with Wojo and Eshelman. 

Alberto has really bad defense, and he frequently plays with his head in the clouds. Yes, he hits, but good baseball involves a lot more than that. Regardless, I don’t think we had to choose one over the other did we?

Regarding Cortes, I would rather have him than Mike Wright, And that’s not the only guy who I would’ve been happy to see go away. I would have done my best to keep both, But I’m not losing any sleep over those particular decisions.

And I’ve always liked Wilson. I think his problem is the same as the problems with Cortez for instance, I think buck just doesn’t like guys who don’t throw really hard, and he does like guys who do throw really hard, even if that’s all they do. Well, Buck or Dan, Whoever was making those  decisions.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Enjoy Terror said:

Change of scenery guy

What hitter wouldn't benefit from AAA pitching in a league that OPS's .850?  That's some good scenery.

[DrungoHazewood]

18 minutes ago, Philip said:

And I’ve always liked Wilson. I think his problem is the same as the problems with Cortez for instance, I think buck just doesn’t like guys who don’t throw really hard, and he does like guys who do throw really hard, even if that’s all they do. Well, Buck or Dan, Whoever was making those  decisions.

I thought that Wilson's problem was that he pitched to a 5.00 ERA in Baltimore, and an almost 5.00 ERA in Norfolk with the old dead AAA balls.  He would have gotten more of a chance if he'd shown the ability to pitch better.

[HowAboutThat]

15 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I thought that Wilson's problem was that he pitched to a 5.00 ERA in Baltimore, and an almost 5.00 ERA in Norfolk with the old dead AAA balls.  He would have gotten more of a chance if he'd shown the ability to pitch better.

 Wilson wasn’t perfect, for sure, but he had more success than Wright, and more potential. And he was cut loose over a year before Wright. I think the reason for that is that whoever was making the decisions was in love with guys who throw hard, and gave short shrift to finesse guys.

Wright is very close friends with Tyler Wilson,  and I’m pretty sure his agent is investigating a spot on a Korean team. Those teams have only a few spots that they can use for foreign players, so they have to really have confidence that a guy will succeed before making room for him. That does not seem to be happening with Wright.

[DrungoHazewood]

Just now, Philip said:

 Wilson wasn’t perfect, for sure, but he had more success than Wright, and more potential. And he was cut loose over a year before Wright. I think the reason for that is that whoever was making the decisions was in love with guys who throw hard, and gave short shrift to finesse guys.

Wright is very close friends with Tyler Wilson,  and I’m pretty sure his agent is investigating a spot on a Korean team. Those teams have only a few spots that they can use for foreign players, so they have to really have confidence that a guy will succeed before making room for him. That does not seem to be happening with Wright.

You should always take a mediocre project pitcher who throws hard over a mediocre project pitcher who is a finesse pitcher.  All else being equal the guy who throws harder is a better pitcher.

I saw Wilson pitch for Norfolk a few years ago and he had nothing.  I think he gave up three or four runs in five innings, was almost never missing bats.  He looked  like a pitcher out of casting 101, but besides that you had to wonder how he was any kind of prospect at all.

[HowAboutThat]

4 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You should always take a mediocre project pitcher who throws hard over a mediocre project pitcher who is a finesse pitcher.  All else being equal the guy who throws harder is a better pitcher.

I saw Wilson pitch for Norfolk a few years ago and he had nothing.  I think he gave up three or four runs in five innings, was almost never missing bats.  He looked  like a pitcher out of casting 101, but besides that you had to wonder how he was any kind of prospect at all.

I agree that all things being equal you take the player with the better raw tools. However, Mike Wright had shown nothing. He had two splendid starts at the beginning of the career, and after that nothing. He never showed any meaningful progress, 97 MPH or not.

Wilson had success and if he’d been able to develop a little bit more command or control(I always get those two mixed up) I think he could’ve been a successful pitcher. Eshelman is similar, and Alex Wells. 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You should always take a mediocre project pitcher who throws hard over a mediocre project pitcher who is a finesse pitcher.  All else being equal the guy who throws harder is a better pitcher.

I saw Wilson pitch for Norfolk a few years ago and he had nothing.  I think he gave up three or four runs in five innings, was almost never missing bats.  He looked  like a pitcher out of casting 101, but besides that you had to wonder how he was any kind of prospect at all.

Wilson’s pitching regressed in 2016-17, both in the majors and in AAA.    I still prefer him over Wright, who never had a major league season where his ERA was as low as Wilson’s career 5.02.    

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, Philip said:

I agree that all things being equal you take the player with the better raw tools. However, Mike Wright had shown nothing. He had two splendid starts at the beginning of the career, and after that nothing. He never showed any meaningful progress, 97 MPH or not.

Wilson had success and if he’d been able to develop a little bit more command or control(I always get those two mixed up) I think he could’ve been a successful pitcher. Eshelman is similar, and Alex Wells. 

Tyler Wilson had 5.4 strikeouts per nine at Norfolk in 2017.  No tweaking command and control was going to make that a major league pitcher.  5.4 was marginal 20 years ago.  Today you'd better be a submariner if you expect to succeed like that.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Philip said:

I agree that all things being equal you take the player with the better raw tools. However, Mike Wright had shown nothing. He had two splendid starts at the beginning of the career, and after that nothing. He never showed any meaningful progress, 97 MPH or not.

Wilson had success and if he’d been able to develop a little bit more command or control(I always get those two mixed up) I think he could’ve been a successful pitcher. Eshelman is similar, and Alex Wells. 

I haven’t seen Wells in person, but let’s just say his results outshine Wilson’s by a wide margin, at a younger age.    Plus he’s a lefty.