Brocail, Flores let go

[HowAboutThat]

25 minutes ago, Frobby said:

So last year, Brocail oversaw one of the worst pitching staffs in the history of baseball, which posted a 5.59 ERA and destroyed the major league record for home runs allowed, and he was retained.    This year, the team ERA is over a run lower, at 4.51, and they let Brocail go.    Go figure.    

Ah, they didn’t dump Brady immediately either. Waiting a bit means nothing. I’m with Tony on this one.

[Frobby]

28 minutes ago, Philip said:

Ah, they didn’t dump Brady immediately either. Waiting a bit means nothing. I’m with Tony on this one.

What are you with Tony on?   He said he was ambivalent about the move.   

By the way, I’m fine with replacing Brocail, depending on who it is.    I just found it ironic that they brought him back after a horrible year from a pitching standpoint and then fired him after the staff had pretty decent season.

I’ll be interested to see who gets the job, and how quickly.   It wouldn’t surprise me if Elias already knows who he’s hiring.   And it could be that Chris Holt takes the job.
 

[rudyrooster]

Almost gotta think there are "personality conflicts" involved.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

What are you with Tony on?   He said he was ambivalent about the move.   

By the way, I’m fine with replacing Brocail, depending on who it is.    I just found it ironic that they brought him back after a horrible year from a pitching standpoint and then fired him after the staff had pretty decent season.

I’ll be interested to see who gets the job, and how quickly.   It wouldn’t surprise me if Elias already knows who he’s hiring.   And it could be that Chris Holt takes the job.
 

He said he agreed with letting Flores go.

[section18]

• I'm surprised about Brocail.  There must be somebody at Bowie they like or somebody became available  they like better.  Maybe somebody from the Cubs Hyde knows from when he was there.

[Moose Milligan]

Well Flores wasn't good.  My initial response is that I'm happy he's out, and thanks to @Frobby for pulling up the stats to confirm what I thought.  Lots of bad sends this year.  I don't think a third base coach is the hardest job in the world, you mainly just need to know who you have on the bases and know the scouting report about the other teams outfielders and how strong/accurate their arms are.  Easier said than done as you need to have a feel for it and make decisions on the fly, too.

I'm perplexed about Brocail, the staff showed improvement across the board this year.  Certainly had more talent to work with, too.  But I am assuming Elias has a plan and knows who he wants to hire next.  

[Frobby]

54 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well Flores wasn't good.  My initial response is that I'm happy he's out, and thanks to @Frobby for pulling up the stats to confirm what I thought.  Lots of bad sends this year.  I don't think a third base coach is the hardest job in the world, you mainly just need to know who you have on the bases and know the scouting report about the other teams outfielders and how strong/accurate their arms are.  Easier said than done as you need to have a feel for it and make decisions on the fly, too.

I'm perplexed about Brocail, the staff showed improvement across the board this year.  Certainly had more talent to work with, too.  But I am assuming Elias has a plan and knows who he wants to hire next.  

And I assume Hyde is on board, since Elias has been pretty clear that Hyde picks his staff.  

[wildcard]

Fredi Gonzalez and Tim Cossins both served as bench coaches in 2020.   Gonzalez besides being a former manager was Third Base Coach for the Marlins from 2016 through 2019.   My guess is he takes over Flores join at 3rd base.

That would cut the number of coaches on Hyde's staff from 8 to 7.

[ChosenOne21]

I thought he hired Brocail pretty late in the offseason when no one else was available. I always got the impression Elias thought Brocail was the best he could do on short notice. I'm kind of surprised he lasted more than a year to begin with, but maybe someone Elias really wanted became available, or like was said earlier in the thread with minor league contraction there will be a ton of candidates

[DrungoHazewood]

9 hours ago, Frobby said:

So last year, Brocail oversaw one of the worst pitching staffs in the history of baseball, which posted a 5.59 ERA and destroyed the major league record for home runs allowed, and he was retained.    This year, the team ERA is over a run lower, at 4.51, and they let Brocail go.    Go figure.    

It's mostly the talent, not the coach.

[ScGO's]

So is Brocail done with the O's all together, or could he be reassigned?

[hoosiers]

9 hours ago, Frobby said:

So last year, Brocail oversaw one of the worst pitching staffs in the history of baseball, which posted a 5.59 ERA and destroyed the major league record for home runs allowed, and he was retained.    This year, the team ERA is over a run lower, at 4.51, and they let Brocail go.    Go figure.    

This is a pretty simplistic way of looking at Brocail's body of work - albeit unusual from our best poster.

I do not have the time to go into more detail, but I will put out a few thoughts that may have led to a change in our pitching coach - in the absence of looking at a detailed pitcher by pitcher analysis from last year to this year.

- I believe our defense was supposed to be better in 2020 than 2019 - something that could have impacted pitcher results.

- the removal of Dylan Bundy (2019 ERA 4.79, ERA+ 98) and the addition of Alex Cobb (2020 ERA 4.30, ERA+ 106)

- speaking of Mr. Bundy, his improvement in results in 2020 with another organization based on a change in pitch mix (as well as opponents) is not a good reflection on our pitching coach - especially if it were determined that the pitch mix change was something that should have been implemented last year based on available data.  Not sure of the results of other pitchers who left the organization.

- also not sure of the improvement of someone like Tanner Scott  from 2019 (ERA 4.78, ERA+99) to 2020 (ERA 1.31, ERA+351!) - what role did Brocail have in the improvement or perhaps in Scott's mediocre numbers last year.

My guess is that our GM has made a numbers based decision on Brocail - just as it was pointed out here how bad Flores was in 2020.

 

[Obando]

A name to keep an eye on for pitching coach is Brent Strom with the Astros.  I don’t know what his contract situation is, but he has strong ties to Elias, Sig, and Chris Holt from Houston, and even going back further to St. Louis with Elias & Sig.  Now that there is a new regime in Houston, Strom would likely be interested in coming to Baltimore to reunite with the people he knows best and are completely aligned with his pitching philosophy.  That all depends on his contract situation though.  I’m going to see if I can find out when Strom’s contract expires with the Astros, because if it’s up at the end of this year, I would not be surprised at all if he’s our next pitching coach.  Holt’s pitching philosophy was learned from Strom, and Holt is known to have named him The Stromfather (as a play on The Godfather) and had t-shirts created with The Stromfather and Strom’s face on it that was given to all the pitchers in the Astros system.  If we were able to bring Strom to Baltimore, that would be a huge pickup for our pitching staff (and pitching program throughout the system), and I can’t imagine Elias & Hyde would let Brocail go without having a replacement in mind.

[eddie83]

57 minutes ago, hoosiers said:

This is a pretty simplistic way of looking at Brocail's body of work - albeit unusual from our best poster.

I do not have the time to go into more detail, but I will put out a few thoughts that may have led to a change in our pitching coach - in the absence of looking at a detailed pitcher by pitcher analysis from last year to this year.

- I believe our defense was supposed to be better in 2020 than 2019 - something that could have impacted pitcher results.

- the removal of Dylan Bundy (2019 ERA 4.79, ERA+ 98) and the addition of Alex Cobb (2020 ERA 4.30, ERA+ 106)

- speaking of Mr. Bundy, his improvement in results in 2020 with another organization based on a change in pitch mix (as well as opponents) is not a good reflection on our pitching coach - especially if it were determined that the pitch mix change was something that should have been implemented last year based on available data.  Not sure of the results of other pitchers who left the organization.

- also not sure of the improvement of someone like Tanner Scott  from 2019 (ERA 4.78, ERA+99) to 2020 (ERA 1.31, ERA+351!) - what role did Brocail have in the improvement or perhaps in Scott's mediocre numbers last year.

My guess is that our GM has made a numbers based decision on Brocail - just as it was pointed out here how bad Flores was in 2020.

 

I’m sure they have their reasons for the dismissal but I don’t follow some of what you are saying here. 

You are telling me the analytics department was not in communication with the staff last year concerning Bundy? Bundy also showed signs the second half of last year that he was making adjustments. We don’t know how he would have performed here this year. Bundy was better across the board but his HR rate dropped in half. Look at the competition he faced. The AL West was not a division that hit well this year. Out of 11 starts he made 5 vs Texas and Seattle combined. What if he stayed and made 5 starts here combined vs Toronto and NYY? I like Bundy but he was dealt because we aren’t ready to win and he brought 4 prospects back. 
 

Clearly the pitching was better this year. My guess is this was not based on numbers at all and other factors are at play.  

[eddie83]

22 minutes ago, Obando said:

A name to keep an eye on for pitching coach is Brent Strom with the Astros.  I don’t know what his contract situation is, but he has strong ties to Elias, Sig, and Chris Holt from Houston, and even going back further to St. Louis with Elias & Sig.  Now that there is a new regime in Houston, Strom would likely be interested in coming to Baltimore to reunite with the people he knows best and are completely aligned with his pitching philosophy.  That all depends on his contract situation though.  I’m going to see if I can find out when Strom’s contract expires with the Astros, because if it’s up at the end of this year, I would not be surprised at all if he’s our next pitching coach.  Holt’s pitching philosophy was learned from Strom, and Holt is known to have named him The Stromfather (as a play on The Godfather) and had t-shirts created with The Stromfather and Strom’s face on it that was given to all the pitchers in the Astros system.  If we were able to bring Strom to Baltimore, that would be a huge pickup for our pitching staff (and pitching program throughout the system), and I can’t imagine Elias & Hyde would let Brocail go without having a replacement in mind.

This is an excellent thought. 
 

The Astros minus Verlander and Cole have put together a solid rotation this year. 
 

This makes a ton of sense.