Bets on where Tony will rank Hoes?

[oriole from cal]

Of course he knew it wasn't David. Those questions are just something people do in real-time chats. His analysis wasn't biased. And he didn't pretend it WAS David.

I tend to rate Hernandez better than others on here. That said, it's tough to argue with the bulk of what Manuel said:

That's indisputable. The question is: what is the probability of him correcting his flaws? I think his rapid improvement from last year is a good sign. Others - like Manuel - are more pessimistic.

That was the problem, people out there reading those chat lines didn't know that!! I'm included and believe me we got calls from many people who knew David and even his agent called asking us whats up. What he(Manuel) did was played a joke on David, which was unprofessional in my view!!!! What did he gain from that. He must take 1000 of question, why take that one.

[slappy12]

I think this is the biggest fallacy in evaluating pitchers. Command is not that easy to teach.

Well we know the Orioles can't and that could be a problem!!

[Big Mac]

Where do you get your information from? Manuel. . . In fact BA had said that David has the best slider in the organization. Major holes??? His major hole is his command!! His change up is a work in progress.

What about the fact that he doesn't go deep into games?

His slider is a good pitch but he can't command it within the zone. You can't be a ML starter with two pitches that you can't command.

Agaon Hernandez has major holes in his game, much more than a pitcher should have at 23 years-old.

John Manuel is not alone in his opinion, I can tell you that. I think the consensus of scouts is that Hernandez is a reliever.

[Big Mac]

That was the problem, people out there reading those chat lines didn't know that!! I'm included and believe me we got calls from many people who knew David and even his agent called asking us whats up. What he(Manuel) did was played a joke on David, which was unprofessional in my view!!!! What did he gain from that. He must take 1000 of question, why take that one.

People do that in chats all the time, it's not uncommon.

I'd have to question the intelligence of the reader's of the chat who didn't know that.

[Mackus]

That was the problem, people out there reading those chat lines didn't know that!! I'm included and believe me we got calls from many people who knew David and even his agent called asking us whats up. What he(Manuel) did was played a joke on David, which was unprofessional in my view!!!! What did he gain from that. He must take 1000 of question, why take that one.

Thats just the way questions are often times asked in chats, its not unprofessional in any way, shape or form. He's not playing a joke on anybody, he's just responding to the questions that are asked of him.

Nobody would actually think that if a question in a chat comes up like:

Matt Wieters from Frederick asks:

When will they move me up to Bowie?

That it is actually Wieters asking the questions. Its extreme gullibility and lack of common sense if anybody actually thought it was.

I don't agree with Manuel's analysis of Hernandez as a middle reliever at best, but calling him unprofessional for doing his job is out of line.

[Big Mac]

Thats just the way questions are often times asked in chats, its not unprofessional in any way, shape or form. He's not playing a joke on anybody, he's just responding to the questions that are asked of him.

Nobody would actually think that if a question in a chat comes up like:

Matt Wieters from Frederick asks:

When will they move me up to Bowie?

That it is actually Wieters asking the questions. Its extreme gullibility and lack of common sense if anybody actually thought it was.

I don't agree with Manuel's analysis of Hernandez as a middle reliever at best, but calling him unprofessional for doing his job is out of line.

I don't even think that was what Manuel said. I believe he said that Hernandez was "probably just a middle-reliever".

[Guest Sailor Jerry]

To get back on track, I'd say somewhere in the top 20. Probably the mid to lower end. But still higher than any pick not named Matusz.

[Stotle]

I have Hoes 11, Bundy 13 and Avery 14.

If all three progress towards their ceilngs, in two years I expect the order to go Bundy, Avery then Hoes.

[Big Mac]

I have Hoes 11, Bundy 13 and Avery 14.

If all three progress towards their ceilngs, in two years I expect the order to go Bundy, Avery then Hoes.

Is that a knock on Hoes or a testament to the ceilings of the other two?

#11 is where I have Hoes as well. I feel like I'm in good company.

[slappy12]

What about the fact that he doesn't go deep into games?

Hey Big Mac is this hard to understand of what? Reason that he doesn't go deep into games is his command, command, I'll say it again command!!!!

John Manuel is not alone in his opinion, I can tell you that. I think the consensus of scouts is that Hernandez is a reliever

I didn't say he was alone, what I did say is the he is a minority in what he thinks of David. I also did say that most observers did say that Hernandez would be a reliever as in set-up or closer role. I'll say this again if Hernandez improves on his command and if his change-up improves he could be a No.3,4 or 5 starter.

[Mackus]

I hope Avery makes it, he's got the best name in the organization.

Xavier Avery

Just feels good to say.

[Stotle]

Is that a knock on Hoes or a testament to the ceilings of the other two?

#11 is where I have Hoes as well. I feel like I'm in good company.

Then #11 it shall be!

My take on Hoes on draft day was that his development will center on fine-tuning his game, adding what size he can and working on 2b. He is a very good athlete with a solid baseball acumen -- he already moves like a ballplayer in all aspects of his game. My knock on him is he has a smallish frame and is already close to filling out. He is solidly above-average in all aspects, but he doesn't really stick out for any one thing in particular.

Bundy has nasty stuff and a big league frame. He already locates his fastball very well and is able to throw a legit curveball that serves as an offspeed pitch and a mechanism for changing the hitter's eye level. If he regains his velocity (which was sitting in the M90s) he could move quickly and end up in the middle of the Orioles's rotation.

Avery's comps to Carl Crawford are pretty solid. He has more raw power in his bat than Hoes and game-changing speed offensively and in left field. If he develops, he'll be a treat to watch out in left.

[murrayfan420]

LJ Hoes' ceiling is somewhat comparable to Brian Roberts correct?

[Big Mac]

Hey Big Mac is this hard to understand of what? Reason that he doesn't go deep into games is his command, command, I'll say it again command!!!!

I didn't say he was alone, what I did say is the he is a minority in what he thinks of David. I also did say that most observers did say that Hernandez would be a reliever as in set-up or closer role. I'll say this again if Hernandez improves on his command and if his change-up improves he could be a No.3,4 or 5 starter.

Yeah, command, it's not a small deal.

He hasn't figured it out yet and he's already 23.

If he can't throw strikes in AA ball at age 23, why should I believe he will in the majors anytime soon?

He's just too much of an unfinished product at this point in his career. If he was 20-21, this wouldn't be as much of an issue, but the fact that he's 23 and has so many question marks makes me skeptical of him having any success as a ML starter.

[clapdiddy]

I'm guessing Hoes will round out the top 10. I think it may be a little high, but I can see it happening.