Theo Epstein

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

He’s awful..but I’m not sure I put him below PA.  At least he spends money and tries to get better.

Now, he doesn’t understand  how to get better but he has at least tried.

Of course, the sexual harassment stuff is a whole other issue.  When you put that in the mix, he’s probably worse.  

But I think there is at least a discussion to be had and that’s pretty sad in its own right.

[scOtt]

Just now, Redskins Rick said:

agree to disagree

Im not ready to paint the sons, with the same brush that Peter is painted with. You will never get an argument from me about how bad PAG is.

You also should see the differences in this team, with the sons being in charge.

Im glad you think the world of Theo. Im not that impressed, but again, thats just my own opinion.

I want an owner, that is zealous with their love of the game, the team, the franchise and the team history. You will not get that with Theo.

I want an owner that is going to sit in the owner's suite and attend the games.

 

 

I agree with you on the Bros. At least give them a chance for a while. Just hiring Elias (and his new-fangled stats thing) and opening up the International market(s) are already big pluses in their favor.

 

About the owner watching every night from his suite... I think you'd DEFINITELY get that from Epstein.

[Chuck A]

I'm wondering if all the PA haters even remember Mr Jacobs and his closed wallet.  PA did spend some dough on this team even if he was Steinbrenner Jr like.

[Redskins Rick]

1 hour ago, Chuck A said:

I'm wondering if all the PA haters even remember Mr Jacobs and his closed wallet.  PA did spend some dough on this team even if he was Steinbrenner Jr like.

PA was tight when he came to pitchers, he chased Mussina out of town, by not paying market value.

Just because PAG spent money, did he spent it wisely.

 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Chuck A said:

I'm wondering if all the PA haters even remember Mr Jacobs and his closed wallet.  PA did spend some dough on this team even if he was Steinbrenner Jr like.

PA spent money on the “fan favorites”.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t know how you can’t be impressed by arguably the most successful GM over the last quarter century.

And yea, the sons are better than dad but if you think they are really good owners, your bar is low.  They still aren’t good..they are just able to clear the low bar set by their dad.  That’s not very difficult to do.   It’s kind of like winning the tallest midget contest.  
 

And again, Theo won’t be the owner.  He will have ownership stake.  There is a huge difference there.

I think it’s too soon to judge the sons.    I’m not saying they’re great, but so far it seems they make a shrewd GM hire (whether or not it actually works out) and they’ve let him do things his way, with the possible exception of holding on to Chris Davis (and we don’t really know if it’s the owners doing that, or whether Elias has chosen to do that in the hopes that Davis will quit and save him some money he can use on other things).   

As to whether Theo is the most successful GM in the last quarter century, I might counter with Andrew Friedman.    Built a very good team on a shoestring budget in Tampa, and has built a divisional dynasty in LA and used his much greater resources wisely.   
 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I think it’s too soon to judge the sons.    I’m not saying they’re great, but so far it seems they make a shrewd GM hire (whether or not it actually works out) and they’ve let him do things his way, with the possible exception of holding on to Chris Davis (and we don’t really know if it’s the owners doing that, or whether Elias has chosen to do that in the hopes that Davis will quit and save him some money he can use on other things).   

As to whether Theo is the most successful GM in the last quarter century, I might counter with Andrew Friedman.    Built a very good team on a shoestring budget in Tampa, and has built a divisional dynasty in LA and used his much greater resources wisely.   
 

I think they have put Elias under some pretty tight financial constraints.

For instance I believed the coaches when they claimed that money is the reason they were not brought back.

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think it’s too soon to judge the sons.    I’m not saying they’re great, but so far it seems they make a shrewd GM hire (whether or not it actually works out) and they’ve let him do things his way, with the possible exception of holding on to Chris Davis (and we don’t really know if it’s the owners doing that, or whether Elias has chosen to do that in the hopes that Davis will quit and save him some money he can use on other things).   

As to whether Theo is the most successful GM in the last quarter century, I might counter with Andrew Friedman.    Built a very good team on a shoestring budget in Tampa, and has built a divisional dynasty in LA and used his much greater resources wisely.   
 

Zero chance Elias is doing what he wants.

He even said he would like to deals like the one LA and SF did last year when the Angels traded Cozart and one of their better prospects.

The sons have perhaps other reasons to do what they are doing, namely selling the team.

Either way, if you think they are doing everything for the best interests of the organization, I don’t know what to tell you but that’s some serious orange colored glasses there.

[MCO'sFan]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

He’s awful..but I’m not sure I put him below PA.  At least he spends money and tries to get better.

Now, he doesn’t understand  how to get better but he has at least tried.

Of course, the sexual harassment stuff is a whole other issue.  When you put that in the mix, he’s probably worse.  

But I think there is at least a discussion to be had and that’s pretty sad in its own right.

PA spent plenty of money especially early on in his ownership. They were consistently top 10 in payroll until the money just got hughly stupid and the Albert Belle injury. Dan Snyder is BY FAR the worst owner of a sports franchise in the last quarter century. PA has not been great but I am not sure he even makes my top (or bottom, depending upon one's perspective) 5 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

PA spent plenty of money especially early on in his ownership. They were consistently top 10 in payroll until the money just got hughly stupid and the Albert Belle injury. Dan Snyder is BY FAR the worst owner of a sports franchise in the last quarter century. PA has not been great but I am not sure he even makes my top (or bottom, depending upon one's perspective) 5 

PA spent a decent amount of money relative to the salaries back then, no doubt.

But bud meddling hurt us and then tightened up.
 

But his horrendous time as the owner goes well beyond money spent.

 

[MCO'sFan]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

PA spent a decent amount of money relative to the salaries back then, no doubt.

But bud meddling hurt us and then tightened up.
 

But his horrendous time as the owner goes well beyond money spent.

 

Don't get me wrong... I think he was a terrible owner when looking at his time as a whole. But there have been worse. Frank McCourt - Dodgers, Fred Wilpons - Mets, Mecom - Saints Culverhouse - Tampa Bay Buccaneers. I would argue that Jacobs was a worse owner for the O's he just didn't own them long. IMHO

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Zero chance Elias is doing what he wants.

He even said he would like to deals like the one LA and SF did last year when the Angels traded Cozart and one of their better prospects.

The sons have perhaps other reasons to do what they are doing, namely selling the team.

Either way, if you think they are doing everything for the best interests of the organization, I don’t know what to tell you but that’s some serious orange colored glasses there.

I think I was pretty clear:

 “I think it’s too soon to judge the sons.    I’m not saying they’re great...”  

I do not think they’ve hamstrung Elias that much.   Does he have some financial constraints?    Sure.    But I think the bigger test of that will come in a year or two when   the young talent is more experienced and they are ready to contend if some key pieces are added.   

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think I was pretty clear:

 “I think it’s too soon to judge the sons.    I’m not saying they’re great...”  

I do not think they’ve hamstrung Elias that much.   Does he have some financial constraints?    Sure.    But I think the bigger test of that will come in a year or two when   the young talent is more experienced and they are ready to contend if some key pieces are added.   

I hear things like they had to let coaches go because of money.  I see things like they didn't spend their full allotment on the draft or in the international market.  I think the financial constraints are pretty significant. 

[jabba72]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I hear things like they had to let coaches go because of money.  I see things like they didn't spend their full allotment on the draft or in the international market.  I think the financial constraints are pretty significant. 

They at least tried with the Cobb signing. That tells me when the intent to win is there they'll probably open up. I think so.  

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

They at least tried with the Cobb signing. That tells me when the intent to win is there they'll probably open up. I think so.  

Wasn't that Peter?

Edited November 19, 2020 by Can_of_corn