What are your expectations for Santander and Hays in 2021?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Especially with this family.

I think it's going to be true of every team.

[owknows]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm firmly in the camp that money not spent today isn't being put away to spend tomorrow.

Chris Davis, Ubaldo Jimenez, Mark Trumbo, and Alex Cobb appreciate your support.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think it's going to be true of every team.

Yes I agree with you.  I just think it rings even truer with certain ownership groups.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, owknows said:

Chris Davis, Ubaldo Jimenez, Mark Trumbo, and Alex Cobb appreciate your support.

Them being signed had nothing to do with “saved up money”

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, owknows said:

Chris Davis, Ubaldo Jimenez, Mark Trumbo, and Alex Cobb appreciate your support.

I was against all four deals.

[owknows]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Them being signed had nothing to do with “saved up money”

No. The comment was made largely tongue-in-cheek (hence the emoji)

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I was against all four deals.

Yea they were all good examples of how not to spend money.

[owknows]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I was against all four deals.

I think they were examples of what happens when non-baseball people decide to "help"...

They were examples of an owner not being a cheapskate.

They were examples of live now pay later.

The earlier analogy was not just about money.

There are now a lot of other things at play.

We're a rebuilding team...  mid market... shakey draw... not threatening a championship

Not a lot of draw for FA's here at the moment even if management wanted to spend the money.

Everyone seems to act like Cory Seager, Mookie Betts, and Mike Trout are just dying for a chance to play in Baltimore.

What's wrong with us? Why aren't we spending the money?

Of course some of that will change when some of the starting pitching matriculates...

But who we gonna attract now? Tier 3 players? Tier 4?

 

 

[HowAboutThat]

59 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea but again, many of the things you say here you can do whether you win a lot or lose a lot.

I think Elias is more than happy to draft in the top 5..which basically means he’s fine with losing right now.

Where I do agree with what I think you are saying is that Elias would also be more than happy to win with the young guys coming up now.  These guys will represent the foundation for the next contending team..at least hopefully.  The sooner they start to be good, stay healthy and play up here, the sooner the team can win.  So, in that sense, we agree.  
 

What Elias isn’t doing, at least so far, is trying to help those players by putting better talent around them.  That’s where I have an issue.  I don’t want them bringing in multiple starters.  I don’t want them bringing in OFers.  I want them bringing in a few players in positions where we aren’t good and make those improvements.  I don’t feel he is going to do that unless he signs someone to some minor league deal, ala Milone.  I think that’s a bad strategy.

I think he is trying to get better players, otherwise he wouldn’t be making any personell moves at all. And we can-and should-upgrade catcher or 3B for nothing. We’ve already got Sanchez, which improves 2B defense, and a 3B chosen almost at random would be a step up from Ruiz, and that gives you a solid defensive infield. Improvement! Less stress on pitching! Fewer calamitous innings! Let joy be unconfined! 
offense...not so much.

That is inexpensive but legitimate improvement. And that’s what we should expect and hope for every year.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Philip said:

I think he is trying to get better players, otherwise he wouldn’t be making any personell moves at all. And we can-and should-upgrade catcher or 3B for nothing. We’ve already got Sanchez, which improves 2B defense, and a 3B chosen almost at random would be a step up from Ruiz, and that gives you a solid defensive infield. Improvement! Less stress on pitching! Fewer calamitous innings! Let joy be unconfined! 
offense...not so much.

That is inexpensive but legitimate improvement. And that’s what we should expect and hope for every year.

So what catcher and third baseman upgrades are available for nothing?

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

 

Where they screwed up, imo, was that they didn’t start rebuilding sooner.  They should already be back to contention had they started this process when they should have as opposed to when they did.

I think that is incorrect. There are so many fundamental problems within the organizational infrastructure, archaic analysis and so on, that any rebuild would have been wasted. We need to fix the bottom before we can groom the top.

that’s what Mike is doing. I hope to get mid-70s this season but we can’t hurry the process..

Edited December 1, 2020 by Philip

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Philip said:

I think that is incorrect. There are so many fundamental problems within the organization  would have been doomed merely because of the organizational infrastructure, archaic analysis and so on, that any rebuild would have been wasted. We need to fix the bottom before we can groom the top.

that’s what Mike is doing. I hope to get mid-70s this season but we can’t hurry the process..

Im unclear to what this post is supposed to mean in relation to the post you quoted.

[MCO'sFan]

17 hours ago, Frobby said:

Wow.   I’d hate to see what you’d predict if you did mean to be a downer.  

I guess I just see them both guys that get hurt pretty regularly and I've seen enough of those guys who continue to be guys who get hurt pretty regularly. I hope that I am wrong because they both could be solid players who can be used in a trade or make other prospects/players available to be used. 

[HowAboutThat]

33 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Im unclear to what this post is supposed to mean in relation to the post you quoted.

I’m saying that even if they had started to rebuild process sooner, they would not have accomplished anything, because of the fundamental problems within the organization. If you don’t upgrade your analysis, for instance, you’re going to be making bad decisions about player acquisition. 
In order for any rebuild to be affective, the organization has to be improved, and that is the focal point of Elias’s work at this time.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Philip said:

I’m saying that even if they had started to rebuild process sooner, they would not have accomplished anything, because of the fundamental problems within the organization. If you don’t upgrade your analysis, for instance, you’re going to be making bad decisions about player acquisition. 
In order for any rebuild to be affective, the organization has to be improved, and that is the focal point of Elias’s work at this time.

Ok..there is truth in this but had they traded Brach, Britton and Manny earlier (like after 2016), the talent they would have gotten back would have been immense.  Now, that doesn’t mean the develop, stay healthy, etc...but had they done that, the team would be back to contending or, at the very least, on the cusp of it.