Hanser Alberto has been non-tendered

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I don't know what their goal is.  I know that they have given approval for Elias to get the international system up to speed and they hired a GM who has the reputation of building a system.  I see that most everything he's done is consistent with that.  

By the way, to play Devil's advocate,  I'm sure many of Tampa Bay's moves over the years didn't look like they were prioritizing winning at the time.

Under the previous ownership sure.  Everything they have done recently looks to be winning with a tight budget.  You see they are talking to the White Sox amount Snell?

 

I'm thinking more the Pirate's model.

[Frobby]

44 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Right, I won't.  Why should I?  What have they done to earn that?

MLB owners have a long history of crying poor.

This article was interesting.   The Braves are publicly traded and report quarterly performance.   Fangraphs did an analysis of their books for this year.   They estimate the Braves had a loss of $65 mm last year after having a $54 mm profit in 2019.    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/what-the-braves-can-tell-us-about-mlb-financial-losses-in-2020/

The Phillies allegedly lost $145 mm this year.   https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/sports/ap-phillies-lost-145-million-during-pandemic-season/2614050/%3fam

Also, I see where Verizon and Comcast are giving rebates to customers based on rebates given to them by Regional Sports Networks that didn’t broadcast a full slate of sporting events this season.    Can’t say for sure if this includes rebates from MASN, but it probably does.    

https://awfulannouncing.com/local-networks/verizon-the-latest-provider-to-offer-customers-an-rsn-credit-due-to-lost-sports.html

 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Right, I won't.  Why should I?  What have they done to earn that?

MLB owners have a long history of crying poor.

Eventually the boy who cried wolf got eaten by the wolf.

[DrungoHazewood]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

This article was interesting.   The Braves are publicly traded and report quarterly performance.   Fangraphs did an analysis of their books for this year.   They estimate the Braves had a loss of $65 mm last year after having a $54 mm profit in 2019.    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/what-the-braves-can-tell-us-about-mlb-financial-losses-in-2020/

The Phillies allegedly lost $145 mm this year.   https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/sports/ap-phillies-lost-145-million-during-pandemic-season/2614050/%3fam

Also, I see where Verizon and Comcast are giving rebates to customers based on rebates given to them by Regional Sports Networks that didn’t broadcast a full slate of sporting events this season.    Can’t say for sure if this includes rebates from MASN, but it probably does.    

https://awfulannouncing.com/local-networks/verizon-the-latest-provider-to-offer-customers-an-rsn-credit-due-to-lost-sports.html

 

English soccer teams usually have more open books, many are publicly traded and file financial reports so I think we can trust their numbers.  Tottenham Hotspur went from a 2019 profit of $92M to a 2020 loss of $86M.  And that's their fiscal year, which ends June 30th.  So it doesn't even include the losses from playing games without spectators from July-on. Manchester United is reporting 2020 losses of over 100m pounds, or something like $130M.  Chelsea is reporting 91m pounds ($123M) in lost revenue due to COVID, so far.

[Sports Guy]

23 minutes ago, Frobby said:

This article was interesting.   The Braves are publicly traded and report quarterly performance.   Fangraphs did an analysis of their books for this year.   They estimate the Braves had a loss of $65 mm last year after having a $54 mm profit in 2019.    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/what-the-braves-can-tell-us-about-mlb-financial-losses-in-2020/

The Phillies allegedly lost $145 mm this year.   https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/sports/ap-phillies-lost-145-million-during-pandemic-season/2614050/%3fam

Also, I see where Verizon and Comcast are giving rebates to customers based on rebates given to them by Regional Sports Networks that didn’t broadcast a full slate of sporting events this season.    Can’t say for sure if this includes rebates from MASN, but it probably does.    

https://awfulannouncing.com/local-networks/verizon-the-latest-provider-to-offer-customers-an-rsn-credit-due-to-lost-sports.html

 

And I would bet the Os lost less money..by a lot.

And let’s remember that the Os view MASN as a separate entity.  Not sure if Atlanta does the same or not.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

And I would bet the Os lost less money..by a lot.

And let’s remember that the Os view MASN as a separate entity.  Not sure if Atlanta does the same or not.

The Braves don’t own their RSN.   TBS used to own them, but hasn’t for a long time.  

What hurts MASN hurts the Orioles.   And I’m sure MASN doesn’t owe the Orioles a full year of rights fees when the O’s only made 60 games available for broadcast, either.     

The only thing the O’s have going for them is their gate receipts were among the lowest in MLB anyway, so they lost less than most teams by having no fans in the stands.    

[Griffey]

In addition to his ability to hit lefties, I'm going to miss his enthusiasm and love of the game.  I'm not sure advanced metrics can adequately account for any positive impact he would have on the team in that regard, but it sure seems like there was value there.  

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The Braves don’t own their RSN.   TBS used to own them, but hasn’t for a long time.  

What hurts MASN hurts the Orioles.   And I’m sure MASN doesn’t owe the Orioles a full year of rights fees when the O’s only made 60 games available for broadcast, either.     

The only thing the O’s have going for them is their gate receipts were among the lowest in MLB anyway, so they lost less than most teams by having no fans in the stands.    

Yea but MASN is still collecting that money from cable subscribers whether the Os are playing or not.  Now, obviously viewership was down, which hurts advertising dollars but the money was still coming in.

The Os also had a significantly lower payroll than Atlanta and moved more payroll during the year.  They didn’t lose nearly the amount of money Atl did and if they would actually factor in MASN, they may not have lost money at all.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Yea but MASN is still collecting that money from cable subscribers whether the Os are playing or not.  Now, obviously viewership was down, which hurts advertising dollars but the money was still coming in.

The Os also had a significantly lower payroll than Atlanta and moved more payroll during the year.  They didn’t lose nearly the amount of money Atl did and if they would actually factor in MASN, they may not have lost money at all.

If you have been making ~50M a year in profits for X number of years a year with even 60M in losses shouldn't be that hard to weather.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If you have been making ~50M a year in profits for X number of years a year with even 60M in losses shouldn't be that hard to weather.

Yep.  It’s all a way to hide behind things and a way to get the fans to buy into it.  That’s all it is.  Generally speaking, it’s working too.

[foxfield]

11 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Lol...can I please hear from people how this ownership group isn’t being cheap?

BTw, I don’t really care that Alberto is being non tendered but they essentially just got rid of 3 relatively productive players that were going to make a total of about 8M between them...pennies on the dollar and they are all too expensive for them?

There is an economic earthquake effecting all pro sports teams...and the Orioles, while certainly not big spenders are arguably being prudent and maintaining a steady rebuild while being cognizant of financial constrictions.  8MM dollars is still 8MM dollars...it is not pennies.  And as long as this situation continues...reduced revenue and budgetary constraints for all...I would expect the Orioles to continue to take every opportunity to save.

Three players at 8M...Nunez, Iglesias, Alberto have been removed.  Not one of those players would appear to be core pieces, but all could easily be considered pieces that make the O's more competitive now. I would at least see the rest of the winter unfold to see what the O's do here before simply branding it as cheap.  I do not have any problem saying it is financially driven however.

I also do not see this as a tanking move...I don't think we are in a position to threaten to run away with the AL East, but I think this team is in a position to be 70-75 win team...I think any projection would hope there would be an addition to the SS position, but let's see the rest of the hand play out.

As Tony said, Hanser is a much more attractive player cheap than at the going rate.  So, for me rather than try to evaluate or tag the intentions of the O's, I prefer to see the entire picture and remain open.

[BohKnowsBmore]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

This article was interesting.   The Braves are publicly traded and report quarterly performance.   Fangraphs did an analysis of their books for this year.   They estimate the Braves had a loss of $65 mm last year after having a $54 mm profit in 2019.    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/what-the-braves-can-tell-us-about-mlb-financial-losses-in-2020/

The Phillies allegedly lost $145 mm this year.   https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/sports/ap-phillies-lost-145-million-during-pandemic-season/2614050/%3fam

Also, I see where Verizon and Comcast are giving rebates to customers based on rebates given to them by Regional Sports Networks that didn’t broadcast a full slate of sporting events this season.    Can’t say for sure if this includes rebates from MASN, but it probably does.    

https://awfulannouncing.com/local-networks/verizon-the-latest-provider-to-offer-customers-an-rsn-credit-due-to-lost-sports.html

 

A word of caution, FG gets a bit out of their depth on financial stuff sometimes. Nothing too terrible on a quick scan of this post in particular, but there’s a few hand waves and remarks that are directionally incorrect. 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea but MASN is still collecting that money from cable subscribers whether the Os are playing or not.  Now, obviously viewership was down, which hurts advertising dollars but the money was still coming in.

The Os also had a significantly lower payroll than Atlanta and moved more payroll during the year.  They didn’t lose nearly the amount of money Atl did and if they would actually factor in MASN, they may not have lost money at all.

When the O's/Nats aren't on you can count MASN viewers on your fingers and toes.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

When the O's/Nats aren't on you can count MASN viewers on your fingers and toes.

Sure..but they are still collecting the money from the cable subscribers.

[DrungoHazewood]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Sure..but they are still collecting the money from the cable subscribers.

Whose numbers are in a freefall.  Even me, nearly 50-year-old guy who's been a Directv subscriber for 20+ years is probably going to cut the cord (okay, the cord to the dish...) soon and be without any (legal) way to get to MASN.  For many people live sports was the reason to keep cable and keep paying those MASN fees, but now you can stream all kinds of stuff... except the O's and Nats in market.  If I cut the cord I can literally watch more 3rd division German soccer than I can Orioles games without doing shady VPN stuff.

Pandemic, no O's games on much of the year and when they come back they're got good.  It's astonishing they haven't worked out a streaming deal, and for now the revenues have to be off significantly from a couple years ago.