What to do at SS?

[owknows]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

He's got 36,000 posts (probably closer to 150,000 from his first username) of being impolite and brash.  Bro, he ain't about to stop.  You're not the first one to recommend it to him.

I've got about 60 years of life where I've made it a point to not subject myself to obnoxious behavior.

I generally try to remedy the situation directly but politely.

If that doesn't work...  No sense being aggravated by it

Easy enough to move on.

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, luismatos4prez said:

The options as I see them:

1. Play someone who is unqualified to be a ML SS (i.e. Valaika, Martin)

2. Sign Freddy Galvis or re-sign Alberto to play SS. (not Profar)

3. Move Sanchez to SS (square peg, round hole as OP said) and let Valaika/Urias/Bannon fight it out for 2B.

Door #2 is clearly the best to me, but it also costs money so we'll see. 

Galvis only makes sense if his market has dropped considerably from last time around, when he signed for $4 mm with a $5.5 mm option that got exercised (had a $1 mm buyout).     Maybe we’d be willing to pay him $2-3 mm.

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

On the flip side, the SSS doesn't let us know if he's NOT an every day player.  If you think he's not an every day player based on the SSS, the possibility exists that he could be an every day player, too.  

I personally don't think he is but on this team I don't mind giving the guy half a season of at bats to see if there's something there.  I'm not impressed at all by his defense but if Elias sees something in his bat, it's not like there's a clearly better option on the roster right now.  All of these guys have holes in their games.  

Why would you give him the chance? What good does it do?

He is 28 years old.  He has spent small parts of 5 seasons in the majors. In that time, his combined WAR is -.8.

His career OpS is sub 700 and that was with playing his career in 2 very good hitters parks.  
 

His MiL career, which spanned over 2100 at bats, saw him have a 750ish OPS and an OBp under 320.

He isn’t that good defensively.

Now, I do agree that he has some pop in his bat.  Ow keeps pointing out the 32 homer pace he was on last year and, to be fair to him and that analysis, Valaika does have 25 career homers over 583 at bats.  But again, that’s spanning 5 seasons, many of which are in Coors.  That doesn’t mean he could play everyday, when pitchers and teams know more and more about him and be able to be a 25+ homer guy.  
 

I don’t see one compelling reason to have him start.  He’s far more likely to be DFA’ed than he is to be a consistent everyday player.  
 

If he was 4 or 5 years younger, so be it.  But he’s not.  I’m fine with him as a UTI guy.  I like his attitude.  He’s a scrappy, hustle guy.  I like that on the team but he’s not more than that.

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Wow!  How did we get to someone claiming Sanchez was a GG caliber SS?  Tim Anderson was a top prospect.  Yolbert Sanchez was not.  

I didn’t say anyone said that.  What I am saying is that SS is arguably the most important position on the field and if he was really good over there, you would think a team would put him there and move the mediocre defender over to second.

Now, maybe the WS are just dumb.  That’s always possible.  Or maybe they saw a GGer at second and a guy that can maybe handle SS but not good enough to put him there.  I think that’s the more likely outcome.

I just see no reason to take away a strength.  The guy is a GGer at a position we need.  Put him at that position and let him thrive.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

I'm not saying it's an endorsement, just that it sounds like he thinks he can handle the position well enough.

“Yolmer Sánchez is a very good player and I can see him helping us in a number of ways,” Elias said. “He can move around all three infield spots. He’s a plus defender, certainly at second and third, and probably a pretty good shortstop. We have a little less info to go on there. But from what we’ve seen, we think he can help at that position as well.

 

 Take from that what you will.   I take from it that Elias potentially could see Sanchez as quality ML defensive SS.

Oh, I think Elias could put him there.  He doesn’t care about winning, so wgaf where he plays?  I can see him having that attitude.  
 

I just hope they don’t do it.  It just doesn’t make much sense.

[Roll Tide]

50 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Tampa tried Robertson at SS and he failed.   I think Elias will be looking for a SS.  Getting Robertson cheap in not the probably.  He probably signs for 1M-1.5m.   Robertson is probably better at 2B but he would be behind Sanchez and Valaika.   There is not reason to sign him for 2B.  

Valaika can play just about anywhere. Personally I would sign Robertson (play him at 2B or 3B regularly), Play Valiaka at the other position, Cut Ruiz who cant hit, and keep Sanchez as a UTI because thats all he is as well.

I dont know what you are trying to saying in the bolded part! as I mentioned, he's a good risk IMO. He's 23 and can be part of the future, has a high OBP which is something we need, and can likely be traded in a year or two if he's able to maintain or improve his batting average in the .265.280 range. His minor league number indicate that possible. And he really only has 1 1/2 seasons worth of at bats.

 

 

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Galvis only makes sense if his market has dropped considerably from last time around, when he signed for $4 mm with a $5.5 mm option that got exercised (had a $1 mm buyout).     Maybe we’d be willing to pay him $2-3 mm.

If he’s not willing to do that, my guess is he doesn’t play MLB next year.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

I'm not saying it's an endorsement, just that it sounds like he thinks he can handle the position well enough.

“Yolmer Sánchez is a very good player and I can see him helping us in a number of ways,” Elias said. “He can move around all three infield spots. He’s a plus defender, certainly at second and third, and probably a pretty good shortstop. We have a little less info to go on there. But from what we’ve seen, we think he can help at that position as well.

 

 Take from that what you will.   I take from it that Elias potentially could see Sanchez as quality ML defensive SS.

Seems to me Elias was thinking Sanchez could fill that spot in a utility role.    Not necessarily as an everyday SS.   Here’s what he said yesterday: 

So who plays shortstop in 2021?

“I think we’ve got work left to do there,” Elias said.

“Part of the risk with a trade like this when it comes to the stability at the major league level that we desire is we’re now looking for infield upgrades. There are a lot of good players out on the market and we’ll have a chance to explore those and try to be opportunistic and smart again like when we found Iggy. So we’ve got some work to do. It does make our job this offseason a little harder. I feel like there’s going to be other moves necessitated because of this trade, but to us it was more important to get the young pitching prospects back and when we look at the market we figure we’ll have some opportunities to reinforce the group that we already have on the roster.”

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2020/12/elias-discusses-todays-activity.html

 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Seems to me Elias was thinking Sanchez could fill that spot in a utility role.    Not necessarily as an everyday SS.   Here’s what he said yesterday: 

So who plays shortstop in 2021?

“I think we’ve got work left to do there,” Elias said.

“Part of the risk with a trade like this when it comes to the stability at the major league level that we desire is we’re now looking for infield upgrades. There are a lot of good players out on the market and we’ll have a chance to explore those and try to be opportunistic and smart again like when we found Iggy. So we’ve got some work to do. It does make our job this offseason a little harder. I feel like there’s going to be other moves necessitated because of this trade, but to us it was more important to get the young pitching prospects back and when we look at the market we figure we’ll have some opportunities to reinforce the group that we already have on the roster.”

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2020/12/elias-discusses-todays-activity.html

 

Yep.  This is what I was referring to that I saw.
 

 

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Why would you give him the chance? What good does it do?

He is 28 years old.  He has spent small parts of 5 seasons in the majors. In that time, his combined WAR is -.8.

His career OpS is sub 700 and that was with playing his career in 2 very good hitters parks.  
 

His MiL career, which spanded over 210 at bats, saw him have a 750ish OPS and an OBp under 320.

He isn’t that good defensively.

Now, I do agree that he has some pop in his bat.  Ow keeps pointing out the 32 homer pace he was on last year and, to be fair to him and that analysis, Valaika does have 25 career homers over 583 at bats.  But again, that’s spanning 5 seasons, many of which are in Coors.  That doesn’t mean he could play everyday, when pitchers and teams know more and more about him and be able to be a 25+ homer guy.  
 

I don’t see one compelling reason to have him start.  He’s far more likely to be DFA’ed than he is to be a consistent everyday player.  
 

If he was 4 or 5 years younger, so be it.  But he’s not.  I’m fine with him as a UTI guy.  I like his attitude.  He’s a scrappy, hustle guy.  I like that on the team but he’s not more than that.

I'd give him the chance because, as you noted, he's got some pop in his bat.  And he's making the league minimum.  

If you're going to complain about Nunez and 2 million, I don't see whopping difference in giving a guy who's 2 years older a shot when he's ~1.5 million cheaper.  Now, Nunez is the better player but it's not like he's not much more than a .750 OPS guy.   And please, let's stop acting like 28 years old is over the hill.  He's a baseball player, not an NFL running back.

Don't get me wrong, I see the flaws in Valaika too.  But as this roster is currently constructed, I don't really care too much.  I don't think someone like Bannon is a significantly better option.  Maybe Valaika is a guy that can produce if he gets steady, consistent at bats.  If Elias and Sig seem to think there's something they can do to coax out better performance, by all means go ahead.

 

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Seems to me Elias was thinking Sanchez could fill that spot in a utility role.    Not necessarily as an everyday SS.   Here’s what he said yesterday: 

So who plays shortstop in 2021?

“I think we’ve got work left to do there,” Elias said.

“Part of the risk with a trade like this when it comes to the stability at the major league level that we desire is we’re now looking for infield upgrades. There are a lot of good players out on the market and we’ll have a chance to explore those and try to be opportunistic and smart again like when we found Iggy. So we’ve got some work to do. It does make our job this offseason a little harder. I feel like there’s going to be other moves necessitated because of this trade, but to us it was more important to get the young pitching prospects back and when we look at the market we figure we’ll have some opportunities to reinforce the group that we already have on the roster.”

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2020/12/elias-discusses-todays-activity.html

 

I like his attitude, even though there's a good bit of fluff in there.  But I think Elias is usually as transparent as he can be without giving things away.

My suspicion is that we won't have an everyday SS.  It'll be a rotation and people here are going to haaaaaaaaaate it. 

[wildcard]

9 minutes ago, owknows said:

I've got about 60 years of life where I've made it a point to not subject myself to obnoxious behavior.

I generally try to remedy the situation directly but politely.

If that doesn't work...  No sense being aggravated by it

Easy enough to move on.

You are making more sense than SG.   I like your perspective.   Hope you find a way to stay.

[Aristotelian]

Going out of the box here... Move Mountcastle back to SS where he played in the minors! They said Cal was too big to play SS. What do we have to lose? 

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'd give him the chance because, as you noted, he's got some pop in his bat.  And he's making the league minimum.  

If you're going to complain about Nunez and 2 million, I don't see whopping difference in giving a guy who's 2 years older a shot when he's ~1.5 million cheaper.  Now, Nunez is the better player but it's not like he's not much more than a .750 OPS guy.   And please, let's stop acting like 28 years old is over the hill.  He's a baseball player, not an NFL running back.

Don't get me wrong, I see the flaws in Valaika too.  But as this roster is currently constructed, I don't really care too much.  I don't think someone like Bannon is a significantly better option.  Maybe Valaika is a guy that can produce if he gets steady, consistent at bats.  If Elias and Sig seem to think there's something they can do to coax out better performance, by all means go ahead.

 

I don’t see the point in comparing Nunez and Valaika.  That’s apples and oranges.  And Valaika isn’t going to be 1.5M cheaper either.

Bannon is a better option because he’s cheaper and younger and carries more of an upside. He absolutely should be starting over Valaika.  It’s because of the roster construction that that’s true.  
 

And 28 isn’t over the hill but it is an age where, generally speaking, you are what you are.  You don’t usually all of a sudden get much better and Valaika has been a below replacement level player in the majors.  Giving him everyday at bats to show he’s something that he’s not makes little to no  sense to me.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

Going out of the box here... Move Mountcastle back to SS where he played in the minors! They said Cal was too big to play SS. What do we have to lose? 

A hundred games.