Cobb to Angels

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

 

JJ Hardy, as one example, had his best Orioles season by bWAR (4.1) and fWAR (4.5) in 2011. He played in only 129 games and slashed .269/.310/.491. That is in the lower end of the stated 5 - 7 win range if you extend to a full season.

I was thinking Belanger.  He had a 6.5 rWAR season in which he had an OPS+ of 100.

[wildcard]

56 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, I can’t say I would disappointed if they don’t sign bad players.  My disappointment is more that they are willfully employing bad players.

That being said, I would be more than happy if the OD rotation was Means, Kremer, Akin, Baumann and Zimmerman.  Part of me says, just go with that and forget adding anyone but I do think adding someone who can eat innings for at least 3 months would be valuable to the team, even if those innings were mediocre.

I only really want Franco to upgrade the defense.  If they can get a different third baseman who is better than Ruiz (not hard to do), I’m good with that.

We don't even know if Baumann is healthy.   And neither Baumann or Zimmerman have played enough AAA to be successful at that level.    A couple of veteran cheap starters will help to stop gap until they are ready.   Especially because pitchers did not throw a lot of innings last season and that may limit the number of innings a starter can pitch in 2021.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

We don't even know if Baumann is healthy.   And neither Baumann or Zimmerman have played enough AAA to be successful at that level.    A couple of veteran cheap starters will help to stop gap until they are ready.   Especially because pitchers did not throw a lot of innings last season and that may limit the number of innings a starter can pitch in 2021.

Or maybe they can throw more since they got all that extra rest.

Neither statement is supported by any actual data.

 

 

[BohKnowsBmore]

Wonder if this was the driver at all on this deal happening. Seems like the return was in the neighborhood of what I threw out there, albeit with us reportedly eating about half of the 2021 salary rather than all of it:

Quote

 

It's no secret that many teams' near-term economic circumstances are a bit up in the air at the moment, making budget decisions a bit more tricky. I think we have mostly all penciled in Means - Cobb - Kremer - Aiken in for our OD rotation, but I started thinking about whether a trade of Cobb might actually be MORE likely in the current environment. If the O's are willing to eat his 2021 salary in full (or nearly in full), he might be an appealing addition to a team who wants to solidify the middle/back-end of its rotation but doesn't want to commit an eight-digit salary to upgrade it's #4 spot. 

What level of prospect would another team be willing to part with for a free ($-wise) season of Cobb? Maybe something like an average organization's #8-10 prospect? Higher? Lower?

For reference, Cobb was worth 0.6 fWAR and 1.0 rWAR in 2020, so ~1.8 - 3.0 WAR over a full season.

 

 

[Matt Bennett]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

We still don’t know how much the team saved on this deal but it should allow them to spend some money on one starter and a guy like Franco for third base.

 

What exactly is the point of a Maikel Franco signing? Elias definitely wants Martin to get the AAA at bats that he’s never had which explains the Galvis signing, but I can’t really see why we would pay a couple $million for maybe a slight upgrade at 3B over Ruiz. 

[scOtt]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

I think you will be disappointed.    They probably spend no more than they did for LeBlanc and Milone last year and probably don't offer Franco any more than 1.5m like they did with Galvis.

I think (I think...) they were already most likely going to sign a starter to a ML contract. The least of the least. Now with Cobb gone, and a little money freed up, they might sign that same nobody, plus a better starter. Like the top of the dregs class. Or at least the top guy.

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

What exactly is the point of a Maikel Franco signing? 

Because he’s better.

[scOtt]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Because he’s better.

 The stated, and hopefully TRUE, goal of ME.

[Matt Bennett]

31 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Because he’s better.

Uhhh, we aren’t trying to get more major league wins in 2021, which is as long as we would have Franco. Quite the opposite. And he sucks. Negative BWar combined over the last 4 years before a BABIP inflated 2 month spurt in 2020. Him and Ruiz have the same bWar over the last 2 years. Not really understanding why we would spend money on him. 

[NCRaven]

I really don't care if Franco is better for a relatively non-competitive team for one year.  I'd rather put a warm body making the ML minimum at third than spend an extra million on Franco.  By mid-season, I'd hope to see some combination of Bannon and Jones in the infield.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

I really don't care if Franco is better for a relatively non-competitive team for one year.  I'd rather put a warm body making the ML minimum at third than spend an extra million on Franco.  By mid-season, I'd hope to see some combination of Bannon and Jones in the infield.

The extra million is meaningless. What do you think that is preventing the team from doing?

I mean, I know they are being insanely cheap but third base is the best way to spend the money right now.  We don’t have one.  We at least have some pitchers we can look at.

[Sports Guy]

22 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

Uhhh, we aren’t trying to get more major league wins in 2021, which is as long as we would have Franco. Quite the opposite. And he sucks. Negative BWar combined over the last 4 years before a BABIP inflated 2 month spurt in 2020. Him and Ruiz have the same bWar over the last 2 years. Not really understanding why we would spend money on him. 

 

22 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

Uhhh, we aren’t trying to get more major league wins in 2021, which is as long as we would have Franco. Quite the opposite. And he sucks. Negative BWar combined over the last 4 years before a BABIP inflated 2 month spurt in 2020. Him and Ruiz have the same bWar over the last 2 years. Not really understanding why we would spend money on him. 

Of course he sucks.  It’s not like the Os want to sign or trade for good players.

I just prefer him over Ruiz.  It’s not like I actually want him or will be upset if we don’t get him.

 But starting Ruiz is both stupid and lazy.  It’s like giving Lopez a rotation spot.  It’s just dumb.  

[HowAboutThat]

9 hours ago, scOtt said:

I know your first part is a joke. I was looking at his defensive numbers. He made a lot of errors since he shifted to 2B (I know E's aren't the end all...) I chalk it up to growing pains/learning experience. His Range Factor is more than double at 2B than all of the OF positions tho. (And he could still be a viable option for emergency CFer.)

I don't know RF and esp. at 2B. Is 4.5-ish good? Great? Meh?

I didn’t know about his bad D, rats. I HATE sloppy D. That’s why I was so down on Villar and Alberto

[scOtt]

3 minutes ago, Philip said:

I didn’t know about his bad D, rats. I HATE sloppy D. That’s why I was so down on Villar and Alberto

Only bad because he's a transplanted OFer... I think...

[NCRaven]

17 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 

Of course he sucks.  It’s not like the Os want to sign or trade for good players.

I just prefer him over Ruiz.  It’s not like I actually want him or will be upset if we don’t get him.

 But starting Ruiz is both stupid and lazy.  It’s like giving Lopez a rotation spot.  It’s just dumb.  

Unless a signing proves otherwise, Elias and Hyde do not prefer Franco over Ruiz.  I do not believe that Elias is either stupid or lazy, despite your constantly using those terms.  Instead, he's made a considered opinion not to waste resources on a very marginal upgrade at 3B.  Galvis was necessary as we had no realistic alternative at SS.  As of now at least, Franco has been deemed unnecessary for this team at this point in the rebuild.