Pitching questions( relievers)

[HowAboutThat]

Consider Mike’s goal: to maximize quantity and quality in our system, so we can have top players playing and a surplus of valuable players to trade for future top players, so we can keep costs low and quality high.

So I think he wants to keep good players.

I think he’s going to try to keep the R5s.

Sulser and Tate can be optioned without issue. They’ve both been fine, but this will allow Hyde to keep both R5 guys and give them a chance to stick against real-life players. If each or either fails, no loss. Bring back Tate and Sulser. But if they succeed, well, we’ve got two new warm bodies in the system who might accrue shiny “Trade Value.” 
Wells has been better than Sceroler, but Sceroler’s last outing showed improvement, and he should get a longer look in the last ten days. 

[Just Regular]

Maybe I'm over-weighing the pedigree, but I thought Tate kind of established himself alongside Scott as "the other young one who might actually be kind of good" last summer, and could be in the mix for first Save.

I also learned that despite the Travis Lakins, Sr. of it all giving the impression of a 30-something, he's actually the same age as Scott/Tate.

[HowAboutThat]

6 minutes ago, OrioleDog said:

Maybe I'm over-weighing the pedigree, but I thought Tate kind of established himself alongside Scott as "the other young one who might actually be kind of good" last summer, and could be in the mix for first Save.

I also learned that despite the Travis Lakins, Sr. of it all giving the impression of a 30-something, he's actually the same age as Scott/Tate.

Tate is good, but he has options and I bet that mike will take advantage of the available options to keep as many guys as possible. I think Lakins will be DFA-Ed.

[wildcard]

Its hard to know what Mike will do with the R5 guys.  Keep one or both or return them.  If he keeps both I think Sulser and Lakins are the most likely to be optioned.  I think Tate has a spot in the pen based on his performance last year.

[TommyPickles]

Travis Lakins Sr. really impressed me last season. They used him in a lot of different situations, he could go multiple innings, and he finishd the season with a 2.80 ERA.

I like this stat too, in 2020 he faced 116 batters (mostly at OPACY). He allowed just 2 HRs.

[SteveA]

8 hours ago, Philip said:

Consider Mike’s goal: to maximize quantity and quality in our system, so we can have top players playing and a surplus of valuable players to trade for future top players, so we can keep costs low and quality high.

So I think he wants to keep good players.

I think he’s going to try to keep the R5s.

Sulser and Tate can be optioned without issue. They’ve both been fine, but this will allow Hyde to keep both R5 guys and give them a chance to stick against real-life players. If each or either fails, no loss. Bring back Tate and Sulser. But if they succeed, well, we’ve got two new warm bodies in the system who might accrue shiny “Trade Value.” 
Wells has been better than Sceroler, but Sceroler’s last outing showed improvement, and he should get a longer look in the last ten days. 

Elias sent back both rule 5 guys last year, so I don't see any precedent for the idea that he will go out of his way to keep guys.  Duquette actually did more of that.

And I think Dillon Tate is a lock to make the bullpen.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

40 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Elias sent back both rule 5 guys last year, so I don't see any precedent for the idea that he will go out of his way to keep guys.  Duquette actually did more of that.

And I think Dillon Tate is a lock to make the bullpen.

Didn’t he send them out pretty early last year?

[HowAboutThat]

47 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Elias sent back both rule 5 guys last year, so I don't see any precedent for the idea that he will go out of his way to keep guys.  Duquette actually did more of that.

And I think Dillon Tate is a lock to make the bullpen.

Yes he returned both guys last year and the year before too. Martin is the only guy he kept, if I recall. But I think this year is different, and these pitchers are better.

[Aristotelian]

Going to be really tough to carry two Rule 5 guys.

If we go with 13 pitchers, that means eight spots available. On the 40 man roster we have:

Scott, Valdez, Lakins, Armstrong, Fry, Jorge Lopez, Tate, and Lakins plus Sceroler and Wells. Wells seems like less of a stretch than Sceroler. 

[Tony-OH]

5 minutes ago, Philip said:

Yes he returned both guys last year and the year before too. Martin is the only guy he kept, if I recall. But I think this year is different, and these pitchers are better.

Plus, the pitchers both are starters by experience so can provide length in the bullpen, something this team will desperately need.

I'm thinking they are going to keep 14 pitchers which means 9 relievers. Now, they don't realistically need a "5th" starter until April 7th, so they could actually demote Akin or Zimmermann or even send Harvey to the alternate camp until then and keep a 10th reliever.

This year is going to be how he can stockpile as many arms as possible.

I see the starters being:

MEans
Kremer
Zimmermann
Harvey
Akin 

Not needing a 5th starter until the 7th, Akin or Zimmermann could by optioned until than or they could send Harvey there until the 7th, but that's doubtful due to his statue.

This is how I see the possibilities in the pen:

Locks: (5)
Scott
Valdez
Armstrong
Fry
Tate 

Those are going to be the "short" relievers and high leverage guys. Now Valdez can provide length as well, but if he can pitch often, I think he'll be in this mix.

The next group are going to be the length guys (4).
Jorge Lopez - I guess he could still get a rotation spot but I really see him in this long man role.
Wade LeBlanc - Similar to Lopez, I think his best role is in the bullpen
Connor Greene - I like Greene's arm, but he could be a guy they stash in the alternate site until he's needed, but I think he would do well
Tyler Wells - I think he's shown enough promise and ability to miss bats to be used in the pen. 

That's nine right there. If they can keep ten until the 7th, I bet they keep Cole Sulser around in the beginning because he has options and can easily be sent back. Lakins could be an option here as well but Sulser has been better  though Lakins is younger. Both are AAAA relievers who can be stashed as relief depth at the alternate site and AAA once it starts up.

Now, if they want to keep Sceroler, they could in that 10th spot in the beginning but someone has to go when the 5th starter is added on the 7th. Greene, Tate, Scott, and Fry have options under this scenario or they could give back one the Rule 5 guys. Scott is going nowhere so the other three could be sent down if needed.

One note is the Orioles have given Eric Hanhold a lot of opportunities and although his ERA doesn't show it, he's pitched well at times. He's going to AAA/alternate site depth as well though since I don't see the Orioles clearly roster space for him assuming Harvey, LeBlanc and Greene need to be added.

Obviously waiver wire claims can affect this as well.

So clear as mud, right?

 

 

[Tony-OH]

40 minutes ago, Philip said:

Yes he returned both guys last year and the year before too. Martin is the only guy he kept, if I recall. But I think this year is different, and these pitchers are better.

He kept Drew Jackson from the Dodgers on opening day, before sending him back shortly after the season started. 

[wildcard]

32 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Going to be really tough to carry two Rule 5 guys.

If we go with 13 pitchers, that means eight spots available. On the 40 man roster we have:

Scott, Valdez, Lakins, Armstrong, Fry, Jorge Lopez, Tate, and Lakins plus Sceroler and Wells. Wells seems like less of a stretch than Sceroler. 

You have Lakins twice.

[wildcard]

21 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Plus, the pitchers both are starters by experience so can provide length in the bullpen, something this team will desperately need.

I'm thinking they are going to keep 14 pitchers which means 9 relievers. Now, they don't realistically need a "5th" starter until April 7th, so they could actually demote Akin or Zimmermann or even send Harvey to the alternate camp until then and keep a 10th reliever.

This year is going to be how he can stockpile as many arms as possible.

I see the starters being:

MEans
Kremer
Zimmermann
Harvey
Akin 

Not needing a 5th starter until the 7th, Akin or Zimmermann could by optioned until than or they could send Harvey there until the 7th, but that's doubtful due to his statue.

This is how I see the possibilities in the pen:

Locks: (5)
Scott
Valdez
Armstrong
Fry
Tate 

Those are going to be the "short" relievers and high leverage guys. Now Valdez can provide length as well, but if he can pitch often, I think he'll be in this mix.

The next group are going to be the length guys (4).
Jorge Lopez - I guess he could still get a rotation spot but I really see him in this long man role.
Wade LeBlanc - Similar to Lopez, I think his best role is in the bullpen
Connor Greene - I like Greene's arm, but he could be a guy they stash in the alternate site until he's needed, but I think he would do well
Tyler Wells - I think he's shown enough promise and ability to miss bats to be used in the pen. 

That's nine right there. If they can keep ten until the 7th, I bet they keep Cole Sulser around in the beginning because he has options and can easily be sent back. Lakins could be an option here as well but Sulser has been better  though Lakins is younger. Both are AAAA relievers who can be stashed as relief depth at the alternate site and AAA once it starts up.

Now, if they want to keep Sceroler, they could in that 10th spot in the beginning but someone has to go when the 5th starter is added on the 7th. Greene, Tate, Scott, and Fry have options under this scenario or they could give back one the Rule 5 guys. Scott is going nowhere so the other three could be sent down if needed.

One note is the Orioles have given Eric Hanhold a lot of opportunities and although his ERA doesn't show it, he's pitched well at times. He's going to AAA/alternate site depth as well though since I don't see the Orioles clearly roster space for him assuming Harvey, LeBlanc and Greene need to be added.

Obviously waiver wire claims can affect this as well.

So clear as mud, right?

 

 

Two things:

1) I think I read they can back date for three days before opening day.   Don't know for sure.  If it is right then 3 +7  means optioned players can't be recalled until the 8th.  Just asking for clarity.

2) If they add Matt Harvey, LeBlanc and Greene who goes.    They are at 39 since Goudeau was waived so there is one.   Davis to the 60 day IL is two.   Who is your third?

I think Greene goes to the alternate site to start the season.

[Tony-OH]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Two things:

1) I think I read they can back date for three days before opening day.   Don't know for sure.  If it is right then 3 +7  means optioned players can't be recalled until the 8th.  Just asking for clarity.

2) If they add Matt Harvey, LeBlanc and Greene who goes.    They are at 39 since Goudeau was waived so there is one.   Davis to the 60 day IL is two.   Who is your third?

I think Greene goes to the alternate site to start the season.

Sceroler will probably be sent back but if not, they can DFA Lakins or Sulser and my guess is they pass through waivers easily. Neither provide length and if you shake a major league organizational tree, ten Susler/Lakins fall out.

Good question about the option at the beginning of the season. I'm not 100% sure.

Greene could be sent to the alternate site for depth and one of Sulser or Lakins could make it I guess, but I agree, we will see Greene at some point this season one way or the other.

[HowAboutThat]

46 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

He kept Drew Jackson from the Dodgers on opening day, before sending him back shortly after the season started. 

Yes I remember that. He was around for 7 games or so, and had about 4 ABs. I wish we’d kept him, but oh well.