Orioles getting excess vaccines

[Aglets]

48 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I’ve debated to myself whether to engage in this topic or not. I stayed out of the Covid thread for months and didn’t even bother to look at it. I have very strong opinions on the topic to the point of where it has impacted my own mental and physical health. I may post some stuff later if I get around to it on the Covid thread. I would hope people would at least listen to what I post and at least be willing to engage in a conversation.  
 

As far as this goes you cannot ignore adverse reactions to the vaccine. This isn’t made up. As you point out more research needs to be done.  That does not mean that it should be ignored. It’s not trolling or misinformation when you provide sourced info. To say that is wrong. 
 

When a 95 year old with multiple major health issues dies in a nursing home with Covid it’s listed as a Covid death if a positive case is found. Here you are arguing basically against that with vaccines. That is more than fair on your part but you can’t ignore the obvious double standard. We count Covid deaths that way but you don’t like it with vaccines. Clearly deaths after a vaccine may have many causes of death.  
 

I have zero plans to get the vaccine. I’ve done with research and I know what my risk is. I talked last April I believe about the age stratified risk with this virus. Comparing people of different ages and risk factors is deliberately conflating data. I have zero issues with anyone getting the vaccine but it should be a personal choice.  I AM NoT an Anti-Vaxxer. As the parent of an autistic child neither my wife nor myself blames our sons autism on vaccines and it angers us both when people make that accusation. 
 

We need to start living in a world where people engage in real genuine conversation. Where context is provided and people aren’t canceled for having a different opinion. 

I work in public health on a task force dealing with COVID and I've been weighing whether or not to chime in too.  Your last mini paragraph struck a chord with me (we do need more genuine conversation) so I think I will respond.

In no particular order...….

There are multiple reasons why everyone should strongly consider getting vaccinated, even if they are in a "low risk group."   

1. Obviously to protect yourself and those in your household from getting COVID.

2. To protect your loved ones from getting COVID who may be in a high risk group.

3. To protect the people you don't know who you interact with on a regular basis who could be at high risk.

4. To help bring about herd immunity for the general population as quickly as possible so we can ALL get society back to "normal."

 

You raise an interesting point about how vaccine deaths can be reported as compared to adverse reactions to the vaccine.  All adverse reactions to the vaccine should be aggressively reported to the CDC for investigation.  The link for the CDC's Adverse Reaction Reporting System is already on this thread and people can check out the data for themselves.  There is an extremely small risk of anaphylaxis with the covid vaccines, (on the order of a few in a million) like there is with ALL vaccines.  It is a false equivalence to say that COVID deaths are reported one way, therefore we should be immediately as suspicious of any deaths reported by someone who passed after getting the vaccine.  All adverse reactions should be reported,  all should be investigated as thoroughly as possible, and that data should be transparent to the public.  As it is on the CDC site.  If there is a direct link between the COVID virus and a death, that should be a "COVID death."  If there is a direct link between the vaccine and a death, that should be done the same way....and to my knowledge there hasn't been any of that yet.  There are investigations, and you can read about those too....I have read plenty.     If you have data more accurate than what CDC has so far I hope you will share.

[murph]

30 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

 

Here you are arguing basically against that with vaccines. That is more than fair on your part but you can’t ignore the obvious double standard. We count Covid deaths that way but you don’t like it with vaccines. Clearly deaths after a vaccine may have many causes of death. 

I am not arguing anything and I also usually stay out of these conversations as well and this is why.  The OP (IMO) clearly was stating there were 4k deaths directly related to the vaccine.  Just wanted to quickly check and clarify that, is all. 

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, murph said:

I am not arguing anything and I also usually stay out of these conversations as well and this is why.  The OP (IMO) clearly was stating there were 4k deaths directly related to the vaccine.  Just wanted to quickly check and clarify that, is all. 

That’s completely fair on your part. 

[eddie83]

25 minutes ago, Aglets said:

I work in public health on a task force dealing with COVID and I've been weighing whether or not to chime in too.  Your last mini paragraph struck a chord with me (we do need more genuine conversation) so I think I will respond.

In no particular order...….

There are multiple reasons why everyone should strongly consider getting vaccinated, even if they are in a "low risk group."   

1. Obviously to protect yourself and those in your household from getting COVID.

2. To protect your loved ones from getting COVID who may be in a high risk group.

3. To protect the people you don't know who you interact with on a regular basis who could be at high risk.

4. To help bring about herd immunity for the general population as quickly as possible so we can ALL get society back to "normal."

 

You raise an interesting point about how vaccine deaths can be reported as compared to adverse reactions to the vaccine.  All adverse reactions to the vaccine should be aggressively reported to the CDC for investigation.  The link for the CDC's Adverse Reaction Reporting System is already on this thread and people can check out the data for themselves.  There is an extremely small risk of anaphylaxis with the covid vaccines, (on the other of a few in a million) like there is with ALL vaccines.  It is a false equivalence to say that COVID deaths are reported one way, therefore we should be immediately as suspicious of any deaths reported by someone who passed after getting the vaccine.  All adverse reactions should be reported,  all should be investigated as thoroughly as possible, and that data should be transparent to the public.  As it is on the CDC site.  If there is a direct link between the COVID virus and a death, that should be a "COVID death."  If there is a direct link between the vaccine and a death, that should be done the same way....and to my knowledge there hasn't been any of that yet.  There are investigations, and you can read about those too....I have read plenty.     If you have data more accurate than what CDC has so far I hope you will share.

This varies by state I believe. Some states are 30 days and some are 60. 
 

To be clear I am not at saying all deaths after the vaccine were caused by the vaccine not at all. I have no idea the direct number. Zero clue. 

[Natsfan17]

13 minutes ago, Aglets said:

I work in public health on a task force dealing with COVID and I've been weighing whether or not to chime in too.  Your last mini paragraph struck a chord with me (we do need more genuine conversation) so I think I will respond.

In no particular order...….

There are multiple reasons why everyone should strongly consider getting vaccinated, even if they are in a "low risk group."   

1. Obviously to protect yourself and those in your household from getting COVID.

2. To protect your loved ones from getting COVID who may be in a high risk group.

3. To protect the people you don't know who you interact with on a regular basis who could be at high risk.

4. To help bring about herd immunity for the general population as quickly as possible so we can ALL get society back to "normal."

 

You raise an interesting point about how vaccine deaths can be reported as compared to adverse reactions to the vaccine.  All adverse reactions to the vaccine should be aggressively reported to the CDC for investigation.  The link for the CDC's Adverse Reaction Reporting System is already on this thread and people can check out the data for themselves.  There is an extremely small risk of anaphylaxis with the covid vaccines, (on the other of a few in a million) like there is with ALL vaccines.  It is a false equivalence to say that COVID deaths are reported one way, therefore we should be immediately as suspicious of any deaths reported by someone who passed after getting the vaccine.  All adverse reactions should be reported,  all should be investigated as thoroughly as possible, and that data should be transparent to the public.  As it is on the CDC site.  If there is a direct link between the COVID virus and a death, that should be a "COVID death."  If there is a direct link between the vaccine and a death, that should be done the same way....and to my knowledge there hasn't been any of that yet.  There are investigations, and you can read about those too....I have read plenty.     If you have data more accurate than what CDC has so far I hope you will share.

If Eddie or anyone else is suggesting that COVID deaths are exaggerated, please look at this data from the CDC

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

The delta between expected deaths in the US (which is normally a very steady figure) and actual deaths for 2020 was 513,757.  The actual listed COVID death toll at the end of the year was 379,239.   COVID related deaths are almost certainly being significantly under reported, and the US current total for COVID related deaths is likely in the 760,000 range. 

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Natsfan17 said:

If Eddie or anyone else is suggesting that COVID deaths are exaggerated, please look at this data from the CDC

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

The delta between expected deaths in the US (which is normally a very steady figure) and actual deaths for 2020 was 513,757.  The actual listed COVID death toll at the end of the year was 379,239.   COVID related deaths are almost certainly being significantly under reported, and the US current total for COVID related deaths is likely in the 760,000 range. 

I may have to step out of this conversation for awhile after reading this. All I was pointing out was the definition of a death is any cause with a positive test within 30-60 days of date of death. That’s it. 
 

I want to be clear. The virus is real. I know someone who passed. I know an entire family who had it and someone with months long issues. 

You act as if shutting down hospitals and the damage from lockdowns caused no other deaths?  This is illogical  

 

[eddie83]

I want to be clear. I am not agreeing that the vaccines have caused all these deaths. If it came across that way I sincerely apologize. I am not against the vaccines at all. Want to make that point crystal clear. I’m just saying we should look at all the data that is all. 

38 minutes ago, murph said:

I am not arguing anything and I also usually stay out of these conversations as well and this is why.  The OP (IMO) clearly was stating there were 4k deaths directly related to the vaccine.  Just wanted to quickly check and clarify that, is all. 

 I want to emphasize I agree with you 100% on this. 

[Natsfan17]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

I’ve debated to myself whether to engage in this topic or not. I stayed out of the Covid thread for months and didn’t even bother to look at it. I have very strong opinions on the topic to the point of where it has impacted my own mental and physical health. I may post some stuff later if I get around to it on the Covid thread. I would hope people would at least listen to what I post and at least be willing to engage in a conversation.  
 

As far as this goes you cannot ignore adverse reactions to the vaccine. This isn’t made up. As you point out more research needs to be done.  That does not mean that it should be ignored. It’s not trolling or misinformation when you provide sourced info. To say that is wrong. 
 

When a 95 year old with multiple major health issues dies in a nursing home with Covid it’s listed as a Covid death if a positive case is found. Here you are arguing basically against that with vaccines. That is more than fair on your part but you can’t ignore the obvious double standard. We count Covid deaths that way but you don’t like it with vaccines. Clearly deaths after a vaccine may have many causes of death.  
 

I have zero plans to get the vaccine. I’ve done with research and I know what my risk is. I talked last April I believe about the age stratified risk with this virus. Comparing people of different ages and risk factors is deliberately conflating data. I have zero issues with anyone getting the vaccine but it should be a personal choice.  I AM NoT an Anti-Vaxxer. As the parent of an autistic child neither my wife nor myself blames our sons autism on vaccines and it angers us both when people make that accusation. 
 

We need to start living in a world where people engage in real genuine conversation. Where context is provided and people aren’t canceled for having a different opinion. 

If you want to count everyone who died after getting a vaccine, you have to at least count the likelihood of them dying anyway.  2 out of 100,000 people die every day across the world.  Is there any evidence that you are statistically more likely than that to die in the days after the vaccine?   If the number is 4000-5000 out of the 500 million who've received the vaccine, then the answer is definitely no.

 

[eddie83]

Just now, Natsfan17 said:

If you want to count everyone who died after getting a vaccine, you have to at least count the likelihood of them dying anyway.  2 out of 100,000 people die every day across the world.  Is there any evidence that you are statistically more likely than that to die in the days after the vaccine?   If the number is 4000-5000 out of the 500 million who've received the vaccine, then the answer is definitely no.

 

I DO NOT want to count everyone. I am just saying that the data needs to be shown. That’s it, nothing more. I am not against vaccines nor am I saying people should not get them. 

You are correct. Some of these people would die anyway just based on averages. 

[Natsfan17]

13 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I may have to step out of this conversation for awhile after reading this. All I was pointing out was the definition of a death is any cause with a positive test within 30-60 days of date of death. That’s it. 
 

I want to be clear. The virus is real. I know someone who passed. I know an entire family who had it and someone with months long issues. 

You act as if shutting down hospitals and the damage from lockdowns caused no other deaths?  This is illogical  

 

Can you point to anything to suggest that deaths from lockdowns and hospital shut downs is in the 10s of thousands?

[Moose Milligan]

[Sports Guy]

Dont let this be another site ruined by covid threads. Lol

[Frobby]

To some degree I think we’re in a “fog of war” situation.   I’d expect there will be revisions to the number of deaths due to COVID over the next year or two.   It normally takes CDC about a year to publish data on how many deaths occurred in a year and what the causes of death were.   In the meantime, the numbers are preliminary.    That said, it’s multiple hundreds of thousands who died from COVID.   As to how many people have had serious ramifications from the vaccine, the numbers are small, though not nonexistent.   It’s certainly an easy call for me to take the vaccine, as I just did yesterday.   (I can report a slightly sore arm.)

[Sports Guy]

To try to turn this into a baseball thread..I wonder if they will end requiring proof of vaccination to attend a game as time goes on?

I can see them forcing this vaccine on the public in a manner like that.

 

[MurphDogg]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

To try to turn this into a baseball thread..I wonder if they will end requiring proof of vaccination to attend a game as time goes on?

I can see them forcing this vaccine on the public in a manner like that.

The Yankees and Mets are requiring either proof of vaccine or a negative test for entry. As far as I know, they are the only teams going that route.

I must say, I do not find the idea of wearing a mask in my seat in the dog days of summer, months after I have become fully vaccinated, to be a tenable solution.

One way or another, I can't see the status quo of 5-25 percent capacity in MLB stadiums and mask wearing in seats lasting into the summer.