NL VP of Scouting : " It’s embarrassing to the sport what they’re doing, or aren’t doing."

[Number5]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Every one of those teams sucked for longer than they needed to.

[NCRaven]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Every one of those teams sucked for longer than they needed to.

And you know that...how?  Oh yeah, they are all "lazy" and "idiots" because they disagree with you. 

[eddie83]

KC sucks forever. Draft Moose, Gordon, Hosmer, trade for Cain, plus Sal Perez. 

Cubs deal for Arrieta, Hendricks, Russell, Rizzo, draft Bryant. Theo inherited Baez and Contreras. He basically dealt players for several years and they were coming off of losing seasons. 
 

Astros. Springer and Altuve already in-house. Draft Correa and Bergman. Trade for Verlander with prospects.  
 

Boston draft Mookie, Bradley, Benintendi. Bogaerts, Devers Itl FA. Trade prospects for Sale and Kimbrel. 
 

It’s the same script over and over. These teams didn’t get better by signing low to middle tier FA’s. 

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

And you know that...how?  Oh yeah, they are all "lazy" and "idiots" because they disagree with you. 

Common sense.  You don’t need to be terrible for that long just to be good again.

The idea of a rebuild is to dump as much long term commitment as possible, get younger and draft high.  Drafting high is the only one of those things that you can’t do at any time.

Once you have unloaded the bad contracts, gotten younger, given yourself long term financial flexibility, etc...you can then start the process of building back up.
 

Im not saying you have to be a contender within a few years but the Orioles should be pushing for a 500ish record this year, not hoping to eek out 68 wins. 
 

 

[Tony-OH]

57 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

His glove and raw power make him better than Severino and Sisco right now.

Hell his reputed ability to frame pitches at an elite level would be enough if you are in to that sort of thing.

Maybe. I just don' think it's like Rutschman just completed a year in AAA and is starting AAA again because of finances. He hasn't played a whole season of minor league ball. He still has issues with his offensive game. Let him get that experience in the minors and then come up. 

Being better than Severino or Sisco is not a high bar.

[LTO's]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Maybe it was the 14 years of sucking before the five year window?  Three playoff appearances and one division title in the last 23 years can have that effect.

I'm in my early 30s. I don't even really remember the late 90s window. All I've known is the Orioles sucking. But I can recognize that they mostly sucked those years because they operated in a diametrically opposite way than Elias and co. are operating right now. They signed bad FAs, had horrible scouting and development, didn't invest internationally and had no analytical identity. Also they played in the AL East during a time where the Yankees and Red Sox were unreal levels of good. How is that relevant to what Elias is doing now? He's expressly said multiple times that what the philosophy in St. Louis and Houston was to build a talent pipeline so that they would not tank again. That's been the case for those two teams so far. Let's see if he can do it here. To this point, the results have been noticeable. 

[Redskins Rick]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Maybe. I just don' think it's like Rutschman just completed a year in AAA and is starting AAA again because of finances. He hasn't played a whole season of minor league ball. He still has issues with his offensive game. Let him get that experience in the minors and then come up. 

Being better than Severino or Sisco is not a high bar.

What do you think of McGregor's comment about Rutschman having issues with the high heat?

[Beef Supreme]

2 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

What do you think of McGregor's comment about Rutschman having issues with the high heat?

You might want to check the thread with that title for your answer.

[eddie83]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Common sense.  You don’t need to be terrible for that long just to be good again.

The idea of a rebuild is to dump as much long term commitment as possible, get younger and draft high.  Drafting high is the only one of those things that you can’t do at any time.

Once you have unloaded the bad contracts, gotten younger, given yourself long term financial flexibility, etc...you can then start the process of building back up.
 

Im not saying you have to be a contender within a few years but the Orioles should be pushing for a 500ish record this year, not hoping to eek out 68 wins. 
 

 

By signing Justin Turner and Taijuan Walker? 
 

Sign players like that and if they start sucking in year 2 what have you accomplished? 
 

The Cubs signed Lester, Zobrist, Lackey. Washington signed Scherzer, Corbin.

 

The 2018 Orioles are an example of trying to add pieces.  It blew up in their face. 

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, Beef Supreme said:

You might want to check the thread with that title for your answer.

thanks

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

By signing Justin Turner and Taijuan Walker? 
 

Sign players like that and if they start sucking in year 2 what have you accomplished? 
 

The Cubs signed Lester, Zobrist, Lackey. Washington signed Scherzer, Corbin.

 

The 2018 Orioles are an example of trying to add pieces.  It blew up in their face. 

The 2018 Orioles signed players to a team with a declining core and/or a core that wasn’t going to be there soon enough. 
That’s a poor example.

I wouldn’t want long term deals (unless the player warrants one..I had wanted Stroman but he took the QO) but signing or trading for some actual ML players, who won’t block players who are about to be here, is something I would have liked to have seen.  And no, I’m not counting Felix as someone who they tried.  

You can acquire talent and be a more competitive team while still keeping your eye on the long term.

[eddie83]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The 2018 Orioles signed players to a team with a declining core and/or a core that wasn’t going to be there soon enough. 
That’s a poor example.

I wouldn’t want long term deals (unless the player warrants one..I had wanted Stroman but he took the QO) but signing or trading for some actual ML players, who won’t block players who are about to be here, is something I would have liked to have seen.  And no, I’m not counting Felix as someone who they tried.  

You can acquire talent and be a more competitive team while still keeping your eye on the long term.

Ok but I was referring to who they added. I should have been more specific. We assume spending money works. 
 

Another huge part of this is the player perspective. Why would anyone good want to come here right now?  They can be paid a comparable salary and better odds to win elsewhere. Then if you really want someone you want to engage in a bidding war? 
 

The Royals did some things this winter that the media loved. If they are good in 3 years it won’t be because of who they added. 
 

Obviously at some point you have to try to fill holes with legit talent. The issue as you know is FA isn’t a great market to do that. 

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Because during the 2018 season they traded off every asset they could to both cut expenses and gather resources for the future.  That is what tanking is.

I don’t consider a mid season sell-off when you’re already playing .300 baseball to be tanking.   The O’s clearly went into 2018 trying to win, and failed miserably.    And the truth is, they were better in 2019 than 2018 even though they were rebuilding.   And better in 2020 than 2019, though I think the short season was a bit misleading in that regard.   

[SteveA]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The 2018 Orioles signed players to a team with a declining core and/or a core that wasn’t going to be there soon enough. 
That’s a poor example.

I wouldn’t want long term deals (unless the player warrants one..I had wanted Stroman but he took the QO) but signing or trading for some actual ML players, who won’t block players who are about to be here, is something I would have liked to have seen.  And no, I’m not counting Felix as someone who they tried.  

You can acquire talent and be a more competitive team while still keeping your eye on the long term.

So -- not long term guys, for the most part.

Better than what we have.

Yet on the free agent market or cheaply available in trade where we wouldn't have to give up prospects to get them.

That's a pretty tall order, if you ask me.   Most good players on the free agent market are going to command an expensive long term contract.   Most players in general on the free agent market are past the top of the talent/age curve and declining.

That leaves lesser free agents... say Freddy Galvis.   Or guys who aren't good enough to make their team but are out of options but might improve us... say Adam Plutko.

Sounds like the Orioles are doing what you want.   And you have been pressed multiple times to give examples of who you might have wanted and the only  one you have given is Stroman but the QO negated that possibility of him meeting your requirements.

For all your hand wringing in this thread, it seems to me like the Orioles did get the type of player that fits your profile, and I don't think there are too many other guys they could have gotten that fit your description.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Ok but I was referring to who they added. I should have been more specific. We assume spending money works. 
 

Another huge part of this is the player perspective. Why would anyone good want to come here right now?  They can be paid a comparable salary and better odds to win elsewhere. Then if you really want someone you want to engage in a bidding war? 
 

The Royals did some things this winter that the media loved. If they are good in 3 years it won’t be because of who they added. 
 

Obviously at some point you have to try to fill holes with legit talent. The issue as you know is FA isn’t a great market to do that. 

If you trade for a player, they have to come.

And no, the Royals (like every other team) will be good because of who they develop but adding supplemental pieces can be helpful.