John Means 2021

[Frobby]

7 hours ago, murph said:

Connolly discusses whether Means can achieve true Ace status in the Athletic today (pay wall):  https://theathletic.com/2530115/2021/04/20/connollys-tap-room-will-orioles-lefty-john-means-reach-true-mlb-ace-status/?source=dailyemail

Read this line and couldn't believe it has been 20 years already!

"The Orioles haven’t had a true ace in 20-plus years, since Mike Mussina left for the New York Yankees after the 2000 season."

I am not expecting John Means to be a true ace in the Mike Mussina sense of that term.   But if he can be an above average pitcher for a number of years, I’d be very satisfied with that.  

[OFFNY]

o

 

John Means stands in between a 3-game sweep at the hands of the Athletics, and what would be a record-breaking winning streak (14 games within the month of April) for the boys from northern California.

 

OAKLAND A THLETICS )))))) (April 25th) 

Mark Canha - LF 

Jed Lowrie - DH

Matthew Olson - 1B

Ramon Laureano - CF

Matthew Chapman - 3B 

Stephen Piscotty - RF

Elvis Augusto Andrus Torres - SS

Aramis Garcia - C

Vimael Machin - 2B

Jesus G. Luzardo - LHP )) (1-1, 5.89 ERA)

 

 https://www.baseballpress.com/Lineups

 

o

[TommyPickles]

I think John Means could achieve ace status.

He's constantly exceeding the expectations people have for him.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

I think John Means could achieve ace status.

He's constantly exceeding the expectations people have for him.

What do you define as an ace?   I find different people have very different definitions of this term.   

To me an ace is a pitcher who is among the top 5-6 pitchers in the league over multiple years.   That’s a pretty tough standard to meet.   

Some other people just mean that a guy is the best pitcher on his own staff over a couple of years.  

 

[OFFNY]

1 hour ago, TommyPickles said:

 

I think that John Means could achieve ace status.

He's constantly exceeding the expectations people have for him.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

 

What do you define as an ace ??? I find that different people have very different definitions of this term.   

To me, an ace is a pitcher who is among the top 5-6 pitchers in the league over multiple years. That’s a pretty tough standard to meet.   

Some other people just mean that a guy who is the best pitcher on his own staff over a couple of years.  

 

o

Al Jackson of the 1962 Mets had 12 Complete Games, and 4 CG-Shutouts.

 

 

 

o

[Sports Guy]

Missed a lot of bats today.  24% swingstr%.

Needed to throw more strikes though.  3 walks were really the only blemish and his str% wasn’t as strong as usual.

Nice outing against a hot offense though.

[OFFNY]

o

 

63% of the outs that Means recorded (12 out of 19) came via the Strikeout and the Groundout.

 

 

19 OUTS: )  6 Strikeouts, 5 Groundouts (Including 1 Double Play), 3 Flyouts, 2 Popouts, 2 Foulouts

 

 

JOHN ALAN MEANS )))))))) (vs. ATHLETICS, 4/25)

IP:l.6.33

H:lllll2 ) l(1 Home Run, 1 Single)

R:llll 1

BB:ll3

SO:ll6

Pitches: l) 101 )(62 )Strikes, )39 )Balls) 

2021 ERA: l) 1.50 )  30.00 IP  (5 ER) 

2021 WHIP: l)  0.900  )  30.00 IP  (27 H/BB) 

2021 OPPONENTS BATTING AVG: l)  .171  )l (18 for 105)   

 

PITCHES BY INNING  

*******************  

11 llll(71 lllStrikes, ll4 lllBalls)

17 llll(13 lllStrikes, ll.4 lllBalls)

15 llll(71 lllStrikes, lll8 lllBalls)

17 llll(12 lllStrikes, lll5 lllBalls) 

10 llll(51 lllStrikes, ll.3 lllBalls) 

15 lll.l(81 lllStrikes, ll.l7 lllBalls)

10 lll.l(41 lllStrikes, lll.6 lllBalls) ) *

 

* )) Means recorded 1 out before departing in the 7th inning.

 

o

[Frobby]

Means has been truly impressive this year.   He knows what works for him and he just goes out and executes it.    His games are becoming appointment viewing. 

[BirdinBama]

I think he is just exuding confidence out there. He was better last Sunday against Texas in terms of command, but today was a good outing!

[Sports Guy]

 

[TommyPickles]

6 hours ago, Frobby said:

What do you define as an ace?   I find different people have very different definitions of this term.   

To me an ace is a pitcher who is among the top 5-6 pitchers in the league over multiple years.   That’s a pretty tough standard to meet.   

Some other people just mean that a guy is the best pitcher on his own staff over a couple of years.  

 

Yea, I've seen people argue about the definition on here. I guess I'm more in the latter group? I think of an "ace" as a #1 starter who might find himself playing in an All Star game (or several) during his career. A guy who is a top 10 pitcher in his league.

I know some people are more careful with the title and I respect that. But, to my original point, I actually believe Means has the potential to be a perrenial top 5 pitcher in the AL. I'm more bullish on his career than the those of us who see him settling in as a dependable 2nd or 3rd starter on a winning club. I think he's shown the ability to improve his game (Ex: the development of his change up) and an ability to outperform the prognosticators' expectations of him. 

-In 2019 he was 8th in the AL in WAR among pitchers (4.8) and he didn't even pitch the whole season.

-So far this year he's top 3 in the AL in WAR and ERA among pitchers. He's in the top 6 or so in IP and WHIP. 

 

 

 

[Oriole1940]

An Ace is a Pitcher who, every time he takes the ball, his team and fans can have a realistic expectation that he will win the game.  He, of course does not win every game, but the expectation is there that he could. And if the team is good enough to reach the playoffs he is the one that is given the ball for Game 1.  .   Brings to mind the saying in the 40s of  Spahn and Sain and 2  days of rain,   for the Boston Braves of the National League.     Warren Spahn and Johnny Sain.   I have tried all weekend to think of a saying for John Means,  but have not thought of one yet.  He needs some help,  cannot do it all.   

[OFFNY]

50 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

 

Yea, I've seen people argue about the definition on here. I guess I'm more in the latter group ??? I think of an "ace" as a #1 starter who might find himself playing in an All-Star game (or several) during his career. A guy who is a top 10 pitcher in his league.

I know some people are more careful with the title and I respect that. But, to my original point, I actually believe Means has the potential to be a perrenial top 5 pitcher in the AL. I'm more bullish on his career than the those of us who see him settling in as a dependable 2nd or 3rd starter on a winning club. I think that he's shown the ability to improve his game (Ex: the development of his change up), and an ability to outperform the prognosticators' expectations of him. 

- In 2019, he was 8th in the AL in WAR among pitchers (4.8, and he didn't even pitch the whole season.)

- So far this year, he's top-3 in the AL in WAR and ERA among pitchers. He's in the top-6 or so in IP and WHIP. 

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Oriole1940 said:

 

An Ace is a Pitcher who, every time he takes the ball, his team and fans can have a realistic expectation that he will win the game. Of course, he does not win every game, but the expectation is there that he could. And if the team is good enough to reach the playoffs, he is the one that is given the ball for Game 1. That brings to mind the saying in the 40's of "Spahn and Sain, and pray for rain" for the Boston Braves of the National League, when they had Warren Spahn and Johnny Sain atop their otherwise shaky starting rotation. I have tried all weekend to think of a saying for John Means, but have not thought of one yet. He needs some help, he cannot do it all by himself.   

 

o

 

For what it's worth, Means leads the American League in ERA, albeit still being very early in the season.

 

o

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Oriole1940 said:

Brings to mind the saying in the 40s of  Spahn and Sain and 2  days of rain

Reminds me of a funny line from Jim Bouton’s Ball Four.   Johnny Sain had been one of his pitching coaches, and Bouton was recounting that one year when Sain was still pitching, Sain had a contract holdout, and the Braves couldn’t afford to lose him, because “then it would have been Spahn then rain then pray for a hurricane, and maybe a flood.”

[fansince1988]

John Means deserves a bobblehead! Get this man a bobblehead already.