The second guessing Hyde thread.

[dystopia]

41 minutes ago, rm5678 said:

But those were on the road, and Hyde said he only brought Bautista back for the 10th inning because we got the lead in the top of the 10th. 

Which is complete BS on Hyde's part, logic-wise, because the whole point of bringing Bautista back out on the road is that he's good at stranding the ghost runner, which means he's likely to strand the ghost runner in the top of the 10th in a home game just the same, and then the O's have a good chance of ending it in the bottom half.

[AnythingO's]

19 hours ago, oriolediehard said:

Why did Hyde use Webb for only 3 batters and not let him finish the inning and save Cionel to use instead of Baumann? He could have let GRod pitch one more inning and use Webb for the 8th and Cano for the 9th and Bautista for the 10th.

I admit I haven't read the entire recent posts re: last night but Hyde burned Webb AND Perez to get 3 outs and didn't let Perez come back out. That ultimately leads to Baumann in the 10th with a runner on, a recipe for a loss on BP management.

[Aristotelian]

3 hours ago, dystopia said:

Which is complete BS on Hyde's part, logic-wise, because the whole point of bringing Bautista back out on the road is that he's good at stranding the ghost runner, which means he's likely to strand the ghost runner in the top of the 10th in a home game just the same, and then the O's have a good chance of ending it in the bottom half.

Exactly. Bautista is such a unicorn he changes the strategy. Being able to strike out half the guys he faces makes him so much more valuable in the 10th. I get limiting him to one inning but then save him for the 10th. There is a chance we lose it in the 9th but Hyde should explain to the fans the best chance to get through both innings is a clean inning for Perez/Baumann and then Bautista in the 10th.

[OriolesMagic83]

I'm just posting to say that Hyde was right not pitching Bautista 2 innings Tuesday because he nailed down the win today.

[Frobby]

10 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I'm just posting to say that Hyde was right not pitching Bautista 2 innings Tuesday because he nailed down the win today.

I think Bautista could have pitched last night even if he’d pitched a second inning on Tuesday, considering how low his pitch count was in the ninth inning that night. He’s already had two outings this year where he pitched on one day of rest after throwing two innings in a game.  But, I’m not going to second guess Hyde on this.   Bautista almost was needed on Wednesday night, and he wouldn’t have been available then if he’d pitched two innings the night before.  And, Hyde is looking at the overall workload on the season, too.  Felix had to be shut down at the end of the season last year with shoulder fatigue, and he’s now 5.1 innings away from last year’s innings total.  He’s on pace to go about 12 innings past last year’s total. No reason to push him any harder than Hyde already is pushing him.  

[dystopia]

11 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I'm just posting to say that Hyde was right not pitching Bautista 2 innings Tuesday because he nailed down the win today.

Which probably would have happened if he pitched a 2nd inning on Tuesday anyway. This does not absolve Hyde whatsoever. 

[banks703]

5 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Which probably would have happened if he pitched a 2nd inning on Tuesday anyway. This does not absolve Hyde whatsoever. 

This is correct. He threw, what, nine pitches Tuesday?

Folks seem to not realize that these guys throw everyday. Like, every. single. day. It’s rare that a starter will throw the day after a start but even starters are throwing side sessions in between their turns in the rotation.

I’m neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the idea that if Felix threw two innings on Tuesday that he wouldn’t have been available last night (mainly because I don’t like him pitching in extras with the ghost runner because he has very little chance of holding that runner at second and while he’s obviously capable of striking out the side, airmailing 103 over the catcher or spiking a split loses the game the same as a base hit would so why waste his innings for situations that he’s set up to fail) 

[dystopia]

36 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think Bautista could have pitched last night even if he’d pitched a second inning on Tuesday, considering how low his pitch count was in the ninth inning that night. He’s already had two outings this year where he pitched on one day of rest after throwing two innings in a game.  But, I’m not going to second guess Hyde on this.   Bautista almost was needed on Wednesday night, and he wouldn’t have been available then if he’d pitched two innings the night before.  And, Hyde is looking at the overall workload on the season, too.  Felix had to be shut down at the end of the season last year with shoulder fatigue, and he’s now 5.1 innings away from last year’s innings total.  He’s on pace to go about 12 innings past last year’s total. No reason to push him any harder than Hyde already is pushing him.  

Hyde didn’t have a crystal ball, he didn’t know whether Bautista would have even been needed Wednesday or Thursday when he chose to take him out. You play to win todays game and worry about tomorrow tomorrow. With the soft schedule the rest of the way, he’d have plenty of opportunities to get a Bautista rest. Important games against divisional rivals was not the time for that. 
 

Nobody agreed with Hyde at the time. I don’t know why people are bending over backwards to justify what was clearly a bad and short sighted decision. 

[dystopia]

5 minutes ago, banks703 said:

This is correct. He threw, what, nine pitches Tuesday?

Folks seem to not realize that these guys throw everyday. Like, every. single. day. It’s rare that a starter will throw the day after a start but even starters are throwing side sessions in between their turns in the rotation.

I’m neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the idea that if Felix threw two innings on Tuesday that he wouldn’t have been available last night (mainly because I don’t like him pitching in extras with the ghost runner because he has very little chance of holding that runner at second and while he’s obviously capable of striking out the side, airmailing 103 over the catcher or spiking a split loses the game the same as a base hit would so why waste his innings for situations that he’s set up to fail) 

Well, he’s done that many times already this year in road games. He’s actually been quite good at it. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, dystopia said:

Well, he’s done that many times already this year in road games. He’s actually been quite good at it. 

And Hyde made it very clear after those games that he wouldn’t have used Felix for a second inning if the O’s hadn’t taken the lead before then. 

[Aristotelian]

I still say even if you want to limit Bautista to one inning, the smart way to win that game is save him for the 10th. It's out of the box but because of Felix's unique assets I believe that gives us the best chance to win the game even if it increases the chance we lose in the 9th. He is just so much more valuable in the 10th, and with their bullpen the chances of us scoring in the 9th are low. If Baumann can get through the 9th, which is >50% proposition, then we have a massive advantage for the 10th. I like those odds better than getting through the 9th only to have a coin flip (at best) in the 10th. I'm not going to fault Hyde for not using this strategy as it is out of the box but I am convinced we should try it. 

[dystopia]

It wouldn’t have been so bad if Baumann had been pitching well. But he hadn’t, and as soon as he was in the game we all knew it was over. 

[banks703]

19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

And Hyde made it very clear after those games that he wouldn’t have used Felix for a second inning if the O’s hadn’t taken the lead before then. 

[Too Tall]

For me, following this thread has gotten better than following The Book of Frazier - which seems to have gone silent for a bit - like Frazier when miked up.    

[glenn__davis]

27 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I still say even if you want to limit Bautista to one inning, the smart way to win that game is save him for the 10th. It's out of the box but because of Felix's unique assets I believe that gives us the best chance to win the game even if it increases the chance we lose in the 9th. He is just so much more valuable in the 10th, and with their bullpen the chances of us scoring in the 9th are low. If Baumann can get through the 9th, which is >50% proposition, then we have a massive advantage for the 10th. I like those odds better than getting through the 9th only to have a coin flip (at best) in the 10th. I'm not going to fault Hyde for not using this strategy as it is out of the box but I am convinced we should try it. 

Agreed 100%.  If you're in a potentially tie game, save Felix for the 10th.  Especially when Cano has been looking very solid lately.