Angelos wants both Tex and Burnett?

[JTrea81]

My question is this. Will the money for Tex and Burnett still be available for other free agents when they don't sign here?

Because with the same money you could give them you could also get Furcal, Dunn and 2 decent pitchers or Furcal and an entire enough money to have a decent rotation.

Go all in or go home. Pay top dollar for top talent, or blow the whole thing up and get as much talent you can for Roberts, Huff, Markakis and Guthrie.

If we want to compete in this talented AL East, there is no in between.

[geschinger]

Go all in or go home. Pay top dollar for top talent, or blow the whole thing up and get as much talent you can for Roberts, Huff, Markakis and Guthrie.

Neither extreme is the right way to go.

[JTrea81]

Neither extreme is the right way to go.

The in between is what has cost us 11 losing seasons.

We aren't going to fill all those infield spots and spots in the rotation that are empty in 2010 by trading just Roberts and Huff...

There are two super talented teams ahead of us and one that has the ability to get that talent. If we want to compete we need more talent.

If we were to trade Markakis, we could plunder somebody's farm system. Guthrie could also net us one good position prospect.

[geschinger]

The in between is what has cost us 11 losing seasons.

We aren't going to fill all those infield spots and spots in the rotation that are empty in 2010 by trading just Roberts and Huff...

There are two super talented teams ahead of us and one that has the ability to get that talent. If we want to compete we need more talent.

If we were to trade Markakis, we could plunder somebody's farm system. Guthrie could also net us one good position prospect.

Not being dedicated to the best possible player development system and being too involved in FA are what has cost us 11 losing seasons. We can't make the mistake and believe that things would have been different if only we had spent MORE for better free agents. It simply is not the case.

It's going to be hard to win when you don't start from a solid foundation and for most of those eleven years we failed at building the foundation. We saw with Tejada and Co. that spending money on FA doesn't do any good w/o a solid foundation.

[Satyr3206]

Not being dedicated to the best possible player development system and being too involved in FA are what has cost us 11 losing seasons. We can't make the mistake and believe that things would have been different if only we had spent MORE for better free agents. It simply is not the case.

It's going to be hard to win when you don't start from a solid foundation and for most of those eleven years we failed at building the foundation. We saw with Tejada and Co. that spending money on FA doesn't do any good w/o a solid foundation.

Couldn't agree more.

[JTrea81]

Not being dedicated to the best possible player development system and being too involved in FA are what has cost us 11 losing seasons. We can't make the mistake and believe that things would have been different if only we had spent MORE for better free agents. It simply is not the case.

It's going to be hard to win when you don't start from a solid foundation and for most of those eleven years we failed at building the foundation. We saw with Tejada and Co. that spending money on FA doesn't do any good w/o a solid foundation.

We've got a solid core at the ML level. There is no reason why we can't compete with that core by adding some top FA talent and making a trade for a competent ML SS using the young pitching we've stockpiled.

However, we don't have a strong minor league system position player wise to supplement that core. So somehow we've got to get more positional talent in the system and the draft or amatuer international signings will take 4-5 years to produce results. I don't think the Orioles can afford to wait that long without risking the loss of the entire fanbase. So you've got to supplement by getting some ML ready players at the cost of a couple of your good young ML players that are close to being FAs.

Those are the two avenues you've got to take to compete in the next 4-5 years, otherwise the best you are going to be is third place.

[Objectivity]

Wanting them is great. Not loading the shotgun, pointing it at our feet and pulling the trigger twice would be better.

Do we want them enough to make a real offer to them? Or are we going to offer something so insulting that they refuse to consider anything else.

Hopefully we've learned that we need to change that strategy. Otherwise we've lost already, regardless of what our final offer is.

[geschinger]

We've got a solid core at the ML level. There is no reason why we can't compete with that core by adding some top FA talent.

However, we don't have a strong minor league system position player wise to supplement that core. So somehow we've got to get more positional talent in the system and the draft or amatuer international signings will take 4-5 years to produce results. I don't think the Orioles can afford to wait that long without risking the loss of the entire fanbase. So you've got to supplement by getting some ML ready players at the cost of a couple of your good young ML players that are close to being FAs.

You are dramatically overestimating the time it takes to develop positional talent. If we were so inclined we could pick a college positional players in the 2009 draft and it may take 2-3 years. It's not going to take guys like Snyder and Rowell another 4-5 years. They'll either make noise in the next 2-3 years or they might not make it at all. I still have confidence and believe that there is a reasonable chance that Rowell is our starting 1b in 2011 if we aren't able to sign Teix.

I also give the fanbase a lot more credit. I think if we did the right thing and gave developing from the farm system a real chance that fans would embrace that type of team. Build a winner and the fans will come. Fail to build a winner and it doesn't matter how many hometown guys there are, fans will stay home.

[geschinger]

Wanting them is great. Not loading the shotgun, pointing it at our feet and pulling the trigger twice would be better.

Do we want them enough to make a real offer to them? Or are we going to offer something so insulting that they refuse to consider anything else.

Hopefully we've learned that we need to change that strategy. Otherwise we've lost already, regardless of what our final offer is.

It's a new regime and we haven't seen how MacPhail will deal w/expensive FAs. We don't even know if that is an avenue he's serious about. But if he is, I think it's a safe assumption that it will be handled better than our previous forays into expensive FA as it can't possibly be handled any worse.

[Intimidator301]

Not being dedicated to the best possible player development system and being too involved in FA are what has cost us 11 losing seasons. We can't make the mistake and believe that things would have been different if only we had spent MORE for better free agents. It simply is not the case.

It's going to be hard to win when you don't start from a solid foundation and for most of those eleven years we failed at building the foundation. We saw with Tejada and Co. that spending money on FA doesn't do any good w/o a solid foundation.

I agree 100% with you in regards to having a solid foundation from which to start.

However, I kinda disagree with your last statement. Its hard to say that spending money on FA wouldn't have helped when we signed Tejada. The O's surrounded him with guys like Payton/Millar/Trachsel/ and an older Palmeiro instead of going out and adding real quality to surround him, like Vlad and Delgado.

Saying that, this team has a solid foundation in Markakis, Jones, Wieters, and BRob (If re-signed), so now is a good time to add pieces like Tex and Burnett.

[JTrea81]

You are dramatically overestimating the time it takes to develop positional talent. If we were so inclined we could pick a college positional players in the 2009 draft and it may take 2-3 years. It's not going to take guys like Snyder and Rowell another 4-5 years. They'll either make noise in the next 2-3 years or they might not make it at all. I still have confidence and believe that there is a reasonable chance that Rowell is our starting 1b in 2011 if we aren't able to sign Teix.

I also give the fanbase a lot more credit. I think if we did the right thing and gave developing from the farm system a real chance that fans would embrace that type of team. Build a winner and the fans will come. Fail to build a winner and it doesn't matter how many hometown guys there are, fans will stay home.

Yeah the fanbase sure showed up this year in a "rebuilding" year. They'll sure be lining up at the box office to see four more years of rebuilding.

To count on Rowell is foolish. The guy has an attitude problem and hasn't even made it out of A ball yet. Snyder may or may not be able to stick as a regular player in the majors. And who plays 1B from 2010-2011 while we are waiting for Rowell to make a huge turnaround? BTW who plays 2B, or SS or 3B for that matter? Right now it's Fahey, Davis and Costanzo. We won't exactly make it out of the cellar with those guys...

[geschinger]

Yeah the fanbase sure showed up this year in a "rebuilding" year. They'll sure be lining up at the box office to see four more years of rebuilding.

Win and they will come, lose and they won't... It's all about what the best way to build a winner is. Some have the approach that we can buy a winner via FA some feel like we can build one. I think it's a combination of both, build from within and when we are close fill in the final piece or two via FA that we've failed to develop. And no, it doesn't take four more years of rebuilding if the build from within approach is taken. I don't know why you keep exaggerating that time frame so much.

To count on Rowell is foolish. The guy has an attitude problem and hasn't even made it out of A ball yet. Snyder may or may not be able to stick as a regular player in the majors. And who plays 1B from 2010-2011 while we are waiting for Rowell to make a huge turnaround? BTW who plays 2B, or SS or 3B for that matter? Right now it's Fahey, Davis and Costanzo. We won't exactly make it out of the cellar with those guys...

He's also 20 years old and has immense talent. I'm not counting on him saying skip other options at this point but I still see no reason to think he's not going to harness his talent and be a big contributor. The attitude thing seems way overblown IMO.

[Mark Carver]

According to this George King article in the NY Post:

Orioles owner Peter Angelos is talking about going after first baseman Mark Teixeira and Burnett. Each is from Maryland.

I haven't actually seen anything saying that. I've see articles with MacPhail saying we'd look into FA's with hometown ties, but nothing from Angelos concerning those two players directly. So this is the first time I've seen that in print...

Anyway, this is good news for Orioles fans. It looks like we could have that offseason that so many of us want.

AJ Burenett is from Little Rock Arkansas and went to Central Arkansas Christian HS when drafted by the Mets. His wife is from the Baltimore area, but his not.

[JTrea81]

AJ Burenett is from Little Rock Arkansas and went to Central Arkansas Christian HS when drafted by the Mets. His wife is from the Baltimore area, but his not.

No but his kids and wife live in Monkton as does he in the offseason, so he'd be able to go home to his wife and kids every night on the homestands. Monkton is his home now, so it may not be where he grew up, but the Orioles are still Monkton's hometown team.

[Mark Carver]

No but his kids and wife live in Monkton as does he in the offseason, so he'd be able to go home to his wife and kids every night on the homestands. Monkton is his home now, so it may not be where he grew up, but the Orioles are still Monkton's hometown team.

I'd say the Burnett's decided to have their home in Monkton (be near her family) because he was signed with the Blue Jays, a Canadian team. This way the kids would not have to grow up in Canada.

Who's to say, that if he would sign with the Mets, they wouldn't move to New York state.