Angelos wants both Tex and Burnett?

[JTrea81]

24 year old players who are the best at their position(or one of the best) are never ever luxuries.

Again what good did he do us this year? We were still in 5th place with him on the team. If you aren't going to supplement around him, then you should deal him for the best talent you can if you are truly rebuilding.

What would you rather have: Kershaw, Kemp and DeJesus or Markakis?

[Sports Guy]

What can we trade to get a possible TOR, because that's what Burnett is or would be for the Orioles. Roberts or Huff will not net one. Guthrie might, but I doubt it.

We just don't have trade chips to deal for all the talent we need to compete with the division.

Burnett is normally a guy who is a #2/#3 starter...What stops him from being a 1/2 starter is durability...I like Burnett and would like us to sign him but saying give him whatever he wants(and that is essentially what you are doing) is foolish.

He is going to be 32 in Jan and only has 3 200 IP seasons...His injury history and age and the idea that he is a pitcher are all plenty enough reasons not to give him 5 years...5 year deals for pitchers are poor ideas.

You act as if we sign him and we are ready to compete and that just isn't true and it is foolish for you to think that we can't find another sub 4 ERA pitcher gor 180 innings(see Guthrie).

Tex is much much more of a need and priority but even if we fail to get him, your way of doing things at this point would still be wrong.

[Sports Guy]

Again what good did he do us this year? We were still in 5th place with him on the team. If you aren't going to supplement around him, then you should deal him for the best talent you can if you are truly rebuilding.

What would you rather have: Kershaw, Kemp and DeJesus or Markakis?

You aren't getting that deal, so stop talking about it.

I mean, if we are going to do that, how about we miss out on Tex but can trade Liz for AGon? (see, i can make up trades that won't happen too)

[Moose Milligan]

(see, i can make up trades that won't happen too)

And often do

JTrea, stop being ridiculous. Nick won't even be entering his prime for another 6-7 years. Hopefully the O's will have built a team around him by then.

Sheesh.

[Intimidator301]

And often do

JTrea, stop being ridiculous. Nick won't even be entering his prime for another 6-7 years. Hopefully the O's will have built a team around him by then.

Sheesh.

So, Markakis will be entering his prime at 30-31 years old, but Roberts and Huff are going to start to decline at 31 and 33 and must be traded? Seems like a double standard .

But, on a serious note, we must lock up Markakis to atleast a 6 year deal. I'd prefer 7.

[JTrea81]

You aren't getting that deal, so stop talking about it.

I mean, if we are going to do that, how about we miss out on Tex but can trade Liz for AGon? (see, i can make up trades that won't happen too)

It doesn't have to be that exact deal, but that's the kind of deal you could get some team to make for Markakis, that type of talent, or obviously you wouldn't trade him.

I'd prefer we extend Roberts and Markakis and build around them along with Wieters and Jones which would include signing Tex and Burnett. But you have to face the reality that we've got to go all in one way or the other to compete in this division within the next 4-5 years. The other teams are too talented to do otherwise.

We can't just trade Roberts and Huff and magically expect to get a starting infield, nor can we rely that all three of Matusz, Tillman and Arrieta will anchor the rotation for the next 6 years. If we want to go with young talent, we've got to get as much stockpiled as we can, and the quickest way to do that is trade your best trade chip, Markakis, for multiple young prospects.

Otherwise, augment what you have through top FAs and that includes keeping a 31 year old Roberts as well as a 24 year old Markakis, and compete for the next 4-5 years while the young talent you've drafted and acquired develops.

[geschinger]

I'd prefer we extend Roberts and Markakis and build around them along with Wieters and Jones which would include signing Tex and Burnett. But you have to face the reality that we've got to go all in one way or the other to compete in this division within the next 4-5 years. The other teams are too talented to do otherwise.

If we do not sign Teix & AJB it's not reality when you say it would take 4-5 years. That simply is not he case.

We can't just trade Roberts and Huff and magically expect to get a starting infield, nor can we rely that all three of Matusz, Tillman and Arrieta will anchor the rotation for the next 6 years. If we want to go with young talent, we've got to get as much stockpiled as we can, and the quickest way to do that is trade your best trade chip, Markakis, for multiple young prospects.

There are plenty of ways to adress holes in the IF... Just look at the Rays... An entire infield all acquired in the last 3 years. Not rocket science and something the MacPhail could certainly do.

[Sports Guy]

If we do not sign Teix & AJB it's not reality when you say it would take 4-5 years. That simply is not he case.

There are plenty of ways to adress holes in the IF... Just look at the Rays... An entire infield all acquired in the last 3 years. Not rocket science and something the MacPhail could certainly do.

Yea, JTrea is really missing a lot of these ideas.

He says AM can't build a quick contender without FA yet he has has the faith in him to build a team long term? How does that work exactly?

Building something quick through FA is much easier than a long term winner.

[Pruke]

If we do not sign Teix & AJB it's not reality when you say it would take 4-5 years. That simply is not he case.

There are plenty of ways to adress holes in the IF... Just look at the Rays... An entire infield all acquired in the last 3 years. Not rocket science and something the MacPhail could certainly do.

The Rays are not a 1 in 30, they are a 1 in XXXX with regards to their rapid tranformation. The amount of luck involved and intangibles make it impossible to do much more than bow down and recognize them for a phenomenal effort.

Not that I don't think we can't do it, but certainly shouldn't include this as part of our 'plan'.

[LookinUp]

He plugged two holes and opened up a gaping hole in the rotation and another at SS, and he filled neither. The rotation hole I can understand because we thought our younger pitchers were ready, but the hole at SS is completely inexcusable.

Uhhh...do you remember that neither of those two guys wanted to be Orioles? Do you remember that they wouldn't re-sign? Do you remember that Tejada is in a steep decline? Do you not think that we got way more for Bedard than we would have had if we kept him?

AM didn't open two holes, he used two guys who represented future holes to acquire 10 talented players. This wasn't inexcusable. Not understanding is the only inexcusable thing I've noticed. :cussing:

[JTrea81]

Yea, JTrea is really missing a lot of these ideas.

He says AM can't build a quick contender without FA yet he has has the faith in him to build a team long term? How does that work exactly?

Building something quick through FA is much easier than a long term winner.

I have faith he would plunder a team for Markakis, something he can't do with Roberts or Huff. And if we want to go that route, I have no doubt he could sell off our top players for the most talent he could get. But it's not worth it without dealing your best chip as Markakis would provide the best return.

And we wouldn't be building through FA, with my preferred method We'd be extending one of the top second baseman in baseball and trading for a SS. We'd be signing five FA's, Tex and Burnett, one of Mussina/Wolf/Byrd, Zaun and a utility infielder.

That fills all our holes for 2009 and only leaves two for 2010 and beyond. It's quick and provides a competitive team for the next 4 years and beyond.

And it doesn't involve MacPhail having to wait any GM's out. All those moves could be done by the end of December instead of over the next 3-4 years.

[JTrea81]

Uhhh...do you remember that neither of those two guys wanted to be Orioles? Do you remember that they wouldn't re-sign? Do you remember that Tejada is in a steep decline? Do you not think that we got way more for Bedard than we would have had if we kept him?

AM didn't open two holes, he used two guys who represented future holes to acquire 10 talented players. This wasn't inexcusable. Not understanding is the only inexcusable thing I've noticed. :cussing:

I have no problem with him dealing Tejada. It's what he didn't do after dealing Tejada that is inexcusable.

And I have no problem with the Bedard trade. It was a fantastic deal, but it did open up a hole in our rotation. You can't deny that.

This offseason will determine the course of the Orioles for the next 4-5 years. If MacPhail can't manage to dramatically improve this team's immediate future with the opportunity he has, then he's not the right man for the job...

[LookinUp]

I have no problem with him dealing Tejada. It's what he didn't do after dealing Tejada that is inexcusable.

And I have no problem with the Bedard trade. It was a fantastic deal, but it did open up a hole in our rotation. You can't deny that.

This offseason will determine the course of the Orioles for the next 4-5 years. If MacPhail can't manage to dramatically improve this team's immediate future with the opportunity he has, then he's not the right man for the job...

Why are you so focused on 2008 and 2009? There's no urgency to fix SS last year or this year. We're supposedly building toward a goal. That goal isn't supposed to be realized in 2008 or 2009.

[JTrea81]

Why are you so focused on 2008 and 2009? There's no urgency to fix SS last year or this year. We're supposedly building toward a goal. That goal isn't supposed to be realized in 2008 or 2009.

It shouldn't take 4+ years to get there and that's the pace we're on (if all goes right) if we pass on top FA's or don't completely blow the team up IMO.

Slow and steady won't win the AL East...

[LookinUp]

It shouldn't take 4+ years to get there and that's the pace we're on (if all goes right) if we pass on top FA's or don't completely blow the team up IMO.

This isn't the NFL. It was always going to take more than 2 years. At best it was a 3-year rebuild. Nobody has ever said anything to contradict that. McPhail could be desperate and over pay to fix a need, but that's not how you build a solid organization. Everyone wants to win, but we have to be smart and we have to improve in every area to do so in this division. It simply won't happen over night.