Good Golly this team is painful to watch right now...

[Pickles]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

 No, YOU are talking about the difference between 64 and 68 wins.  
 

That’s not what I’m doing.

Whether you acknowledge it or not, yes you are.

[Sports Guy]

40 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Whether you acknowledge it or not, yes you are.

Lol..no I’m not.  I’m not talking about tiny improvements and believing that we can get 10 more wins out of that.

Thats a narrative that you are making up in your own mind.

[connja]

Feel like the hitting will improve, and already seeing that with Santander back this weekend.  Really worried about the pitching.  Kremer needs to be better.  Worst nightmare is he becomes Arieta 2.0 and flurishes only after we give him away for .10 on the dollar.    

Akin, Zimmermann should be able to be a 4th/5th starter material for the time being.

Really feel like Lopez could be strong at the back end of the bullpen.  Like to see him there sooner rather than later but that will require some options for the rotation.

 Harvey is done.

[Pickles]

34 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Lol..no I’m not.  I’m not talking about tiny improvements and believing that we can get 10 more wins out of that.

Thats a narrative that you are making up in your own mind.

Then what are you talking about?

You've been making the argument for  a couple days now that the FO has been derelict in their duty precisely because they haven't made a series of incremental improvements which would lead to a slightly more competitive team this year.

Am I insane?

Is that not precisely what you've been arguing for 2 days now?

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Then what are you talking about?

You've been making the argument for  a couple days now that the FO has been derelict in their duty precisely because they haven't made a series of incremental improvements which would lead to a slightly more competitive team this year.

Am I insane?

Is that not precisely what you've been arguing for 2 days now?

Then perhaps you should learn better reading comprehension.

I have been very clear about my point.

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Then perhaps you should learn better reading comprehension.

I have been very clear about my point.

No, you haven't.

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Then perhaps you should learn better reading comprehension.

I have been very clear about my point.

Ah yes, as soon as Sports Guy can't convince others of his argument, he starts insulting their reading comprehension.   

As I said a few days back, I really don't think there were significant improvements that could have been made to make a REAL difference in the performance of this team,   You say there were, you mention Adames.   I don't know how much better he would have been from Galvis or what we would have had to give up to get him in the offseason.   But even if we grant that he might have made a game or two difference -- you still haven't given any specifics about these hypothetical improvements that would have made us really significantly better.   

And Pickles calls you on it and gets the old reading comprehension insult that you pull out when needed.

[Sports Guy]

26 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Ah yes, as soon as Sports Guy can't convince others of his argument, he starts insulting their reading comprehension.   

As I said a few days back, I really don't think there were significant improvements that could have been made to make a REAL difference in the performance of this team,   You say there were, you mention Adames.   I don't know how much better he would have been from Galvis or what we would have had to give up to get him in the offseason.   But even if we grant that he might have made a game or two difference -- you still haven't given any specifics about these hypothetical improvements that would have made us really significantly better.   

And Pickles calls you on it and gets the old reading comprehension insult that you pull out when needed.

Lol....I have been very clear about my point. If you can’t figure out what I’m saying, that’s on you and yes, that’s on your reading comprehension.  
 

He’s calling me out on something that doesn’t exist and his own inability to understand my point.

He doesn’t agree we should have tried to get better.  Great.  I don’t particularly care. He also doesn’t agree with me on how many wins we get this year.  Again, great, I don’t particularly care.  However, just because he doesn’t agree with those things doesn’t mean I haven’t been clear in what I’m saying.

 

[osfan83]

I have a strict 10 under rule.....they fall more than 10 under .500 I stop watching until they can get back to 7 under. 

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, connja said:

Feel like the hitting will improve, and already seeing that with Santander back this weekend.  Really worried about the pitching.  Kremer needs to be better.  Worst nightmare is he becomes Arieta 2.0 and flurishes only after we give him away for .10 on the dollar.    

Arrieta was the better prospect, by far.   Kremer doesn’t have that level of upside.    That’s not to say he couldn’t become a decent 3-4 starter if things broke right with him.   But that’s the best I can see from him.    

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Lol....I have been very clear about my point. If you can’t figure out what I’m saying, that’s on you and yes, that’s on your reading comprehension.  
 

He’s calling me out on something that doesn’t exist and his own inability to understand my point.

He doesn’t agree we should have tried to get better.  Great.  I don’t particularly care. He also doesn’t agree with me on how many wins we get this year.  Again, great, I don’t particularly care.  However, just because he doesn’t agree with those things doesn’t mean I haven’t been clear in what I’m saying.

 

Well we have to define “incremental.” They tried to accomplish something with Felix, Sanchez, Harvey, Galvis, Plutko, hmmm, who else did they savage from the dumpster? Waddell? Shaw? Any additional names escape me. But those were all worthwhile gambles, and to their credit, they did dump Sanchez, for whatever reason. So, yes, those were definitely and undeniable attempts at improvement, best called “incremental.” The focus was definitely more on “cheap” than “good” but there’s nothing wrong with trying to improve inexpensively.

HOWEVER, given what we needed and could arguably have cheaply done to get better, especially at catcher,  those on the other side of the argument also have some ammunition.

This team needs two new catchers, and needs them right now, or any claim to even incremental improvement is immediately given the lie, and any threats of penalties for awful play are seen to be empty.

Mountcastle needs out of the OF. It’s silly to try and increase his imaginary trade value by insisting that he’s a left fielder, when he clearly isn’t. Instead, we need to focus on our four excellent outfielders, and let them have their innings and ABs without interference. And do something with Stewart. He’s not beyond help, but he’s neither as good as everyone else on the roster, nor possessed of any trade value, so I’m at a bit of a loss what best for him.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Philip

[maybenxtyr]

36 minutes ago, osfan83 said:

I have a strict 10 under rule.....they fall more than 10 under .500 I stop watching until they can get back to 7 under. 

I think you'll have a plenty of free time this summer. I'm not sure that they have a win streak in them right now.

[Pickles]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Lol....I have been very clear about my point. If you can’t figure out what I’m saying, that’s on you and yes, that’s on your reading comprehension.  
 

He’s calling me out on something that doesn’t exist and his own inability to understand my point.

He doesn’t agree we should have tried to get better.  Great.  I don’t particularly care. He also doesn’t agree with me on how many wins we get this year.  Again, great, I don’t particularly care.  However, just because he doesn’t agree with those things doesn’t mean I haven’t been clear in what I’m saying.

 

I was going to just walk away but you know, you have demonstrated yourself to be one of the most arrogant and abrasive posters on this board over the years, so I don't think I will.

I teach reading/writing for a living ironically enough.  You know what I teach my students?  If your audience doesn't understand your writing, the problem isn't your audience.  It is with you.

So, you blaming me for your own sad and pathetic inability to enunciate yourself is on brand for you Sports Guy.

This is my understanding of your "thesis" in this thread:

You've been making the argument for  a couple days now that the FO has been derelict in their duty precisely because they haven't made a series of incremental improvements which would lead to a slightly more competitive team this year.

You tell me this is not your point at all, and I only understand it as such because presumably I am too stupid to read.

Let's go back and look at some of what you've written in this thread.

I’m talking about bringing in outside talent.  I’m talking about using your money to bring in talent.  I’m talking about using some of our depth to bring in talent.

Not every prospect is for playing in the majors.  They are assets to use in a number of ways.  Trading some of them for proven talent that still fits into your situation is what you should be doing. 

just to say that the goal would be a 500ish/much more watchable team 

 

Gee, where did I ever get the idea that you were in favor of trading prospects and spending money on middling upgrades to a bad team that won't impact competitiveness in any way, shape or form.

You can dress up bad ideas however you want.  You can get angry when people call out your bad ideas.  You can claim your bad ideas are a species of brilliance.  Brilliance that others can't comprehend because they're too stupid.

They're still bad ideas.

 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 hour ago, osfan83 said:

I have a strict 10 under rule.....they fall more than 10 under .500 I stop watching until they can get back to 7 under. 

So see you next year.

But hey you can't deny the team looks good wearing hockey jerseys. 

 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Pickles said:

I was going to just walk away but you know, you have demonstrated yourself to be one of the most arrogant and abrasive posters on this board over the years, so I don't think I will.

I teach reading/writing for a living ironically enough.  You know what I teach my students?  If your audience doesn't understand your writing, the problem isn't your audience.  It is with you.

So, you blaming me for your own sad and pathetic inability to enunciate yourself is on brand for you Sports Guy.

This is my understanding of your "thesis" in this thread:

You've been making the argument for  a couple days now that the FO has been derelict in their duty precisely because they haven't made a series of incremental improvements which would lead to a slightly more competitive team this year.

You tell me this is not your point at all, and I only understand it as such because presumably I am too stupid to read.

Let's go back and look at some of what you've written in this thread.

I’m talking about bringing in outside talent.  I’m talking about using your money to bring in talent.  I’m talking about using some of our depth to bring in talent.

Not every prospect is for playing in the majors.  They are assets to use in a number of ways.  Trading some of them for proven talent that still fits into your situation is what you should be doing. 

just to say that the goal would be a 500ish/much more watchable team 

 

Gee, where did I ever get the idea that you were in favor of trading prospects and spending money on middling upgrades to a bad team that won't impact competitiveness in any way, shape or form.

You can dress up bad ideas however you want.  You can get angry when people call out your bad ideas.  You can claim your bad ideas are a species of brilliance.  Brilliance that others can't comprehend because they're too stupid.

They're still bad ideas.

 

Well, that helps to explain the dumbing down of Americas youth.

 

This is where YOU are getting lost.  YOU are saying the team would only go from a 64 win to a 68 team.  I have never said that.  I do not agree with that.  I believe they are already about a 68 win team right now to begin with and I think if they had done a better job upgrading other areas of the team that this team could be a 75-80 win team.

 

Now, to get that 80 win area, they would need the youth to play well, Adley come up (which is also part of what I would do, since that is what we are talking about) and things like that.  If those guys fail or get hurt, sure the improvements won't be as strong.  I personally believe in a lot of the youth and young talent this team has, so I think they would have been good enough to show improvement.  I think bringing in better talent to support the young players and to just flat out be more competitive is good for them.  

 

This has CONSISTENTLY been my point the whole time so yes, if you are failing to understand that, that is absolutely on you, not me.

 

I think you have a belief that for us to do what I think we should have done, that we would have had to trade a lot of our better talent.  That's just not true because of how this offseason went and the power that money had this past offseason.  And if teams did say, we must have your top guys, you say no thanks.  That's obvious, especially since I have also  consistently said that you don't sacrifice the long term. Trading 2 guys in the 25-40 range (as an example) isn't sacrificing anything.  I have also said, consistently, that you don't tie yourself up in long term contracts that could hurt you.  But adding a 1-2 year deal would be fine.

 

My top target this offseason as Stroman.  He unfortunately accepted a QO. Would have loved to have added him on a 3-4 year deal.  I also wanted German Marquez and I still do.  That's a guy I would have traded some of our better talent for.  He is really good, young and signed to a favorable deal for several years.  Outside of those 2 players, I don't remember advocating for anyone where I would have dealt a lot of value or paid a big long term deal to.  

 

I think adding 1-2 very good relievers, a real starter and a few positional upgrades would have done wonders for this team.

You want to disagree, that's fine...but my point has remained the same and if you don't get that, its on you.