Jahmai Jones vs Terrin Vavra at 2B?

[wildcard]

Who is the O's 2022 second baseman?

Roch talks today in his blog about how the O's fan base wants to see Jones promoted to play 2B.     He indicates the fans are restless.   But is Jones even the 2nd baseman the O's will turn to next year?

Jones has been in the minors and is currently a high error 2B.   His bat looks productive at AAA.    The O's want to make him better defensively.  But can they?   His range looks below average in CF.  He is not going to replace Mullins there.  A move to LF might work.   The O's have oft injured Hays there but Jones could be better than Stewart as a back up.   There are other LF prospects like Diaz and McKenna.     If all these prospects develop there will be trades.

Terrin Vavra has been a  2B/SS  in the minors.  He looks better at 2B.  His .985 fielding percent at 2B looks reliable.  His .400 OBP at AA makes him look like a fast mover up the minors.    He could be at 2B at AAA in the 2nd half and it he does well could be in the majors next  year.  He is older than Jones since he was a college draftee.

So all the push to put Jahmai Jones at 2B for the O's might be short lived depending whether Vavra develops faster defensively and offensively than Jones.

[Tony-OH]

It's a good question overall. I like Jones bat a little better because I think it's a got a little more pop than Vavra, but I like Vavra better defensively. While Vavra has a below average infield arm, he has showed me some good range and hands and he turns the DP better than Jones even with the below average arm.

Jones is a bit of a tweener in that he may not have the bat to be an everyday left fielder, but may not be able to handle second base effectively. He's just very stiff there.

Of note, Jones has been playing left field some this past week. Vavra is still out and the team has not released a due back timeframe.

[Frobby]

27 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

It's a good question overall. I like Jones bat a little better because I think it's a got a little more pop than Vavra, but I like Vavra better defensively. While Vavra has a below average infield arm, he has showed me some good range and hands and he turns the DP better than Jones even with the below average arm.

Jones is a bit of a tweener in that he may not have the bat to be an everyday left fielder, but may not be able to handle second base effectively. He's just very stiff there.

Of note, Jones has been playing left field some this past week. Vavra is still out and the team has not released a due back timeframe.

The last sentence kind of renders wildcard’s question moot for the time being.   Vavra may be a better answer than Jones in the longer term, but for now he’s not available and he’ll need to scrape off some rust once he’s healthy.  He’s been out two weeks so far.   

I guess for now the O’s like Urias better than Jones, probably because he can fill in at SS along with Leyba.   

 

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The last sentence kind of renders wildcard’s question moot for the time being.   Vavra may be a better answer than Jones in the longer term, but for now he’s not available and he’ll need to scrape off some rust once he’s healthy.  He’s been out two weeks so far.   

I guess for now the O’s like Urias better than Jones, probably because he can fill in at SS along with Leyba.   

 

Urias can play SS ok so that's why he's up. Leyba is a better defender at 2B than Jones even though he doesn't have a strong arm either. 

[interloper]

25 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Urias can play SS ok so that's why he's up. Leyba is a better defender at 2B than Jones even though he doesn't have a strong arm either. 

This is a separate topic, but I never understood why Urias was optioned in favor of Valaika. Urias takes good ABs, plays a better SS than Valaika, and had a positive WAR. He's also younger. Was it just because they were forced to give Pat a decent arbitration salary and therefore feel the need to get their money's worth? If so, that's disappointing.

BUT - I'm glad to see Urias back up and he had a nice game yesterday. He's solid! I'm not sure why Valaika is even still here, though he's been at least slightly better of late. 

[Aristotelian]

Ortiz, Grenier, and Leyba are possibilities too. There is also the chance of an Iglesias/Galvis type of veteran that could change the situation. If Vavra was in line for the job I don't think they would be playing him so much in CF. The repeated errors are a huge knock against Jones. My guess would be Ortiz. 

[Sports Guy]

Vavra is more likely to be the second baseman of the future if the reports on Jones’ defense are true.

That being said, Jones should be the everyday second baseman right now.  It’s ridiculous that he’s not.

[Brooks The Great]

Jones should be up. We're losing games no matter what, let's take a look at what we may have for the future.

Leyba should also be up for the same reasons. Just use 2B and DH (plus LF for Jones) to get a look at both players.

I think Vavra will ultimately be the guy there. I think he's the best combination of offense and defense for the position. But let's see what Jones and Leyba can show now.

[Tony-OH]

30 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Ortiz, Grenier, and Leyba are possibilities too. There is also the chance of an Iglesias/Galvis type of veteran that could change the situation. If Vavra was in line for the job I don't think they would be playing him so much in CF. The repeated errors are a huge knock against Jones. My guess would be Ortiz. 

Grenier and Ortiz could still be the near term shortstop of the future still as well. Westburg has the most upside as the SS of the future, and still think Henderson will end up at 3B. 

I like Ortiz at 2nd base a lot defensively.

If it were me, Leyba would be playing 3B, Jones at 2B and Urias at SS with Leyba giving Jones spells against tough righties. Valaika would be my utility guy right now. It's time to end the Franco experiement. He's not going to bring any value back at the trade deadline and is not worth keeping around when we have players that needs to get some major league experience.

 

[wildcard]

4 hours ago, interloper said:

This is a separate topic, but I never understood why Urias was optioned in favor of Valaika. Urias takes good ABs, plays a better SS than Valaika, and had a positive WAR. He's also younger. Was it just because they were forced to give Pat a decent arbitration salary and therefore feel the need to get their money's worth? If so, that's disappointing.

BUT - I'm glad to see Urias back up and he had a nice game yesterday. He's solid! I'm not sure why Valaika is even still here, though he's been at least slightly better of late. 

Urias' defense can get pretty sloppy at times.  Earlier this year he made 5 errors in 24 games. Only 16 of them were starts.

[Camden_yardbird]

After seeing Vavra (and his bat control) in person earlier this year I did a deeper dive.  I think he has a special level of bat control.  He is a little more pull happy this year but his splits have always been near 33/33/33 (pull, center, push).  Despite more pulls this year he has decreased his FB rate as well. 

I really think Vavra could eventually comp out to Adam Frazier.

[Orioles Jim]

When I saw Vavra play in Hartford a couple weeks ago I was definitely liking what I saw. He had a hot day with the stick that day and looked great at the plate.  The idea of having a guy that could hit like that at 2nd was really exciting. I can’t lie and say I got a great look at his defense at second base that day, though.

One thing that I did notice with Vavra pregame was that he was giving a lot of guys in the dugout bear hugs. Could be nothing but could indicate that he’s a “clubhouse guy”.  I saw that and theorized that he had been promoted but that obviously wasn’t the case. He bear hugged multiple guys (including Rutschmann who very obviously also wasn’t promoted), so I thought that was worth noting. 

[ChuckS]

Are the fans really getting restless that Jahmai Jones hasn't been promoted?  Aside from the one percenters that frequent message boards like these, I would guess that very few O's fans even know who he is. 

I can see that statement applying to Adley Rutschman and maybe Grayson Rodriguez.  But not a fringy second base prospect who we just added at the deadline last year. 

[Frobby]

16 hours ago, wildcard said:

Urias' defense can get pretty sloppy at times.  Earlier this year he made 5 errors in 24 games. Only 16 of them were starts.

He’s not good defensively, and he has bad defensive instincts.   I can recall two wild relay throws he made to home plate where he never got a view of home plate before throwing and never saw where the runners were.   

[sportsfan8703]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

He’s not good defensively, and he has bad defensive instincts.   I can recall two wild relay throws he made to home plate where he never got a view of home plate before throwing and never saw where the runners were.   

Gotta bring back Bobby Dickerson to work with these guys.