Mora has minor shoulder surgery; Roberts & Markakis talks slow

[Sports Guy]

You guys (SG, mainly) are ridiculous. It is blatantly obvious that Nick wants fewer years than MacPhail wants to give him. Do you really want MacPhail to entertain the notion of, say, a 4 year deal (hypothetical)? The reward on that deal isn't worth the risk.

4 years vs no extension at all? Yes, that is obviously much better than having him walk.

[obannon35]

4 years vs no extension at all? Yes, that is obviously much better than having him walk.

Doesn't that only take away one free agency year?? If so I'd let him walk after three before doing that deal. It makes no sense for the O's to agree to that.

[LookinUp]

Doesn't that only take away one free agency year?? If so I'd let him walk after three before doing that deal. It makes no sense for the O's to agree to that.

I'm with you on this one. Reasonable negotiations take two willing parties. It's entirely possible that neither Markakis nor Roberts are willing to participate in reasonable negotiations at this time. Perhaps that changes if we make some major improvements in the next month? We really can't know.

It's also possible that McPhail is just dragging his feet for whatever reason. If that's the case, his tactic makes much more sense with Roberts than Markakis, IMO...and that makes the first scenario more likely.

I could see his strategy being an either/or strategy, where we either sign Tex/Burnett or we continue to blow this thing up. However, I'd be VERY surprised if Markakis was part of his blow up plan.

BTW, could some kind person on this board PM me with directions for viewing rating information? For whatever reason, my dense brain just can't figure it out.

[Sports Guy]

Doesn't that only take away one free agency year?? If so I'd let him walk after three before doing that deal. It makes no sense for the O's to agree to that.

I am sorry but did you really say that it makes no sense for us to keep our best player and face of the franchise for one extra year? Really?

For me, the longer we can keep him, the better...I would rather have Nick for 4 years than 3 years.

Plus, if he isn't going to extend any longer and that becomes obvious, a team trading for him would give up more to get that extra year.

[backwardsk]

I am sorry but did you really say that it makes no sense for us to keep our best player and face of the franchise for one extra year? Really?

For me, the longer we can keep him, the better...I would rather have Nick for 4 years than 3 years.

Plus, if he isn't going to extend any longer and that becomes obvious, a team trading for him would give up more to get that extra year.

So if the Markakis camp says they want 4 years do you make that deal this afternoon, or do you continue to negotiate this winter to get the number of years up to eight or nine?

[JTrea81]

I am sorry but did you really say that it makes no sense for us to keep our best player and face of the franchise for one extra year? Really?

For me, the longer we can keep him, the better...I would rather have Nick for 4 years than 3 years.

Plus, if he isn't going to extend any longer and that becomes obvious, a team trading for him would give up more to get that extra year.

Yeah but Nick is no longer cheap if you sign him for that extra year. He's a cheap productive player for three years.

Teams would still give an arm and a leg to get him IMO...

[JTrea81]

So if the Markakis camp says they want 4 years do you make that deal this afternoon, or do you continue to negotiate this winter to get the number of years up to eight or nine?

I sign Tex, Burnett and extend Roberts and then go to Nick and say "Are you sure you want to walk away from this?"

[Sports Guy]

So if the Markakis camp says they want 4 years do you make that deal this afternoon, or do you continue to negotiate this winter to get the number of years up to eight or nine?

At this point, it should be obvious exactly how many years he wants...They talked to him in July and have talked to him this offseason.

So, if he has been consistent on only wanting to give away 1 year of FA, i don't see how we are going to change that.

Maybe if we make some big splashes but still, in that scenario the benefit of the doubt is being given to the Orioles and the assumption is that AM would already have this done...Suffice it to say, I am not willing to do either of those things.

[backwardsk]

At this point, it should be obvious exactly how many years he wants...They talked to him in July and have talked to him this offseason.

So, if he has been consistent on only wanting to give away 1 year of FA, i don't see how we are going to change that.

Maybe if we make some big splashes but still, in that scenario the benefit of the doubt is being given to the Orioles and the assumption is that AM would already have this done...Suffice it to say, I am not willing to do either of those things.

I'm not following your last paragraph. Have what done? Making the big splash? Before free agency?

Why wouldn't Markakis want to wait to see what direction the team is going this offseason? Is he on record saying how many years he wants?

If you were in his shoes, wouldn't you want to wait until you see how this offseason plays out?

[nadecir]

At this point, it should be obvious exactly how many years he wants...They talked to him in July and have talked to him this offseason.

So, if he has been consistent on only wanting to give away 1 year of FA, i don't see how we are going to change that.

Maybe if we make some big splashes but still, in that scenario the benefit of the doubt is being given to the Orioles and the assumption is that AM would already have this done...Suffice it to say, I am not willing to do either of those things.

I agree with SportsGuy on this one. If Markakis only wants to sign for four years, get it done now.

I don't understand how anyone can say that signing Markakis cheaply for four years is not worth doing. Four years is better than having him for only three.

Every day that Markakis gets closer to free agency makes it more likely that Markakis leaves in three years. Suppose Markakis sees a bunch of big deals signed for free agents during this offseason. He's even more likely to say, "I want those big bucks in three years. I am not extending with a team that has had eleven straight losing seasons."

If the Orioles have to overpay to get Teixeira or Burnett, it is going to affect the outyears of Markakis' negotiations. And what if the Orioles strike out with any major free agents this offseason? Doesn't that make it even more likely that Markakis leaves in three years?

Waiting as Markakis gets closer to free agency is not going to make it easier to sign him. If Markakis is willing to sign a four year deal now, MacPhail should get it done today.

[JTrea81]

And what if the Orioles strike out with any major free agents this offseason? Doesn't that make it even more likely that Markakis leaves in three years?

If the Orioles strike out on FAs then they need to trade Markakis and anybody else with a contract expiring within 4 years anyway to get the talent they need to compete.

If the O's strike out on FAs and the Braves get Peavy, I'm calling the Braves asking for Heyward and Hanson and more for Markakis and possibly Roberts...

[Mackus]

People are just being impatient. It doesn't matter when a Markakis deal gets done, just that one gets done before he leaves as a free agent. As long as he's here beyond the 2011 season, it doesn't matter whether a deal is agreed to today or in August of 2011.

There are obvious upsides to getting it done sooner, but there are also obvious upsides to getting it done later. Saying that it is inexcusable for something not to be done yet is simply hyperbole.

[LookinUp]

So, if he has been consistent on only wanting to give away 1 year of FA, i don't see how we are going to change that.

I agree with SportsGuy on this one. If Markakis only wants to sign for four years, get it done now.

I don't understand how anyone can say that signing Markakis cheaply for four years is not worth doing. Four years is better than having him for only three.

No offense to either of you - and I do consider you both smart posters - but I can't believe that you'd both just cave in on such a major issue. The point of negotiations is to achieve a mutually acceptable agreement. In almost every single negotiation, that results in each side extracting more out of your counter part than was originally offered.

If Kakes wants a four-year deal and we want a seven-year deal, the natural result will be to negotiate something in the 5-6 year range. This would most commonly be done by making $$ tradeoffs. However, based on AM's quote, it appears that the O's are trying to achieve that gain through some other means.

Maybe they're relying on the entire premise of an extension in the first place - that it's in the player's best interest to take the guaranteed money now rather than wait and accept any risk associated with waiting.

Either way, wanting to get something done quickly and actually doing it quickly are two different things. If both sides are taking tough stances in this negotiation - which Markakis' quote seems to indicate, it makes a lot of sense that it's not moving quickly. Indeed, it's certainly in the Orioles' best interest to get a good deal rather than to get any deal at all. It only goes against the O's interests if the long negotiations result in a bad deal or no deal at all.

Settle down and let AM do his job.

[Sports Guy]

I'm not following your last paragraph. Have what done? Making the big splash? Before free agency?

Why wouldn't Markakis want to wait to see what direction the team is going this offseason? Is he on record saying how many years he wants?

If you were in his shoes, wouldn't you want to wait until you see how this offseason plays out?

The point was made that it is obvious Nick wants to sign for less years than what AM wants to give him. I think there is a good possibility of this.

In fact, i brought this up a few months ago...Started a thread about this possibility and what would AM do about it.

However, the way this is being presented by some HOers is that Markakis is the one holding things up, not AM.

Why should any of us assume that? AM works ridiculously slow, why should we think this is any different? Why does he deserve the benefit of the doubt that Markakis is the one "at fault" here?

Personally, i think this is at the feet of AM and really, I don't see how anyone can think any different.

[Sports Guy]

If the Orioles strike out on FAs then they need to trade Markakis and anybody else with a contract expiring within 4 years anyway to get the talent they need to compete.

If the O's strike out on FAs and the Braves get Peavy, I'm calling the Braves asking for Heyward and Hanson and more for Markakis and possibly Roberts...

They aren't trading Nick this offseason..>They shouldn't and they won't...Move on from this thought.