I'm starting to think we are 4-5 years away from competing for real

[7Mo]

1 hour ago, Pickles said:

They're not going to sign anybody in the minors to any kind of extension, so that's a non-starter.

I'm not sure what the club would be willing to do but if they're not at least considering somewhat team friendly deals for Adley and Grayson, they should be.

[Pickles]

Just now, 7Mo said:

I'm not sure what the club would be willing to do but if they're not at least considering somewhat team friendly deals for Adley and Grayson, they should be.

How many MiLers have signed these kinds of deals? 

I can remember two.  And neither worked out for the club.

I get the idea behind it, but it doesn't happen for a reason: Clubs have likely determined that it is way too risky, without a lot of upside.

[7Mo]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

How many MiLers have signed these kinds of deals? 

I can remember two.  And neither worked out for the club.

I get the idea behind it, but it doesn't happen for a reason: Clubs have likely determined that it is way too risky, without a lot of upside.

There is risk, yes. And there is risk with every single player in baseball. Scherzer could have tripped on grass today and blow a megadeal.

But if you're saying there isn't upside with those 2 names, I'm not sure who could have upside. What bigger names could there be in the O's system?

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

There is risk, yes. And there is risk with every single player in baseball. Scherzer could have tripped on grass today and blow a megadeal.

But if you're saying there isn't upside with those 2 names, I'm not sure who could have upside. What bigger names could there be in the O's system?

I'm saying there's not a lot of upside to save a ton of money.  The risk outweighs the upside at this point.  

[7Mo]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

I'm saying there's not a lot of upside to save a ton of money.  The risk outweighs the upside at this point.  

But that's the negotiation, right? Maybe both players say no. But you have to be looking at it, right? If you believe your baseball guys, your analytics, etc, you've gotta believe you have a very good projection on where they're headed, both performance wise and salary wise.

There has to be an appropriate discount for both risk and guarantee. But if you're going to believe in building blocks, who else would you choose?

There is risk no matter what you do. You gotta risk it to get the biscuit. But measured risk, of course.

[spiritof66]

8 hours ago, Explosivo said:

The bat is there however. Of the two, which do you think is easier to coach, hitting or fielding?

You could ask Ryan Mountcastle.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, spiritof66 said:

You could ask Ryan Mountcastle.

He's not excelling at either currently. 

[Jagwar]

11 hours ago, Frobby said:

I don’t think so.   Rodriguez, Hall, Hays, Mountcastle, Baumann and Rom were all there.   Since then, Akin, Kremer, Lowther and Diaz have all lost some shine, for sure.   Pop was lost to the Rule 5 draft, but he was in our system.   Overall, I’d say the system has been about as expected.

 

We had some studs... but the depth wasn't there. Very little international presence. Who was in the pipeline after the names you mentioned? And after all of the talent Elias has added, why are we still talking about years from being competitive?  

The hole was deep IMO. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Jagwar said:

We had some studs... but the depth wasn't there. Very little international presence. Who was in the pipeline after the names you mentioned? And after all of the talent Elias has added, why are we still talking about years from being competitive?  

The hole was deep IMO. 

Part of the reason we are years from being competitive is because that's why the GM was hired.  For a slow tear it down rebuild.  That was his hiring pitch.

[spiritof66]

8 hours ago, Frobby said:

I mean, this team spent $140 mm+ on payroll annually from 2015-17, so what makes you think they won’t spend when the time is right?   The time isn’t right yet, but I expect a steady ramp up beginning as early as this offseason.   Don’t forget that in 2023 we are no longer paying Davis $17 mm/yr (we’ll still be escrowing a bit less than $6 mm/yr through 2024 to fund his deferred comp payments).    

Two things.

The first is that I believe the team is going to be sold within a couple of years (maybe a lot less) after the current owner dies, and I believe his sons, in anticipation of that sale, will continue to put money in their pockets rather than spend that money on bringing in and paying for established talent outside the organization that carries multimillion-dollar salaries. Maybe I'm wrong; I hope so.

Second, in the case of the Orioles, it's not fair to compare past payroll expenditures, especially those of 2015-17, to expected future payroll. For more than a decade of the Peter Angelos regime, the Orioles' ability to pay players, relative to that of other teams, was inflated by his mandate that the team minimize expenditures on scouting, signing and developing foreign players, building out the team's analytics capability and probably domestic scouting and a bunch of other things. By 2015-17, Angelos had virtually no interest in making investments that would benefit future Orioles teams. His attention was riveted on holding onto and augmenting valuable pieces from the 2014 division champions in order to make a last-ditch effort to win a World Series and modify his legacy as one of the least successful, as well as one of the most reviled, owners in recent baseball history. He wanted to win immediately. He put his dollars toward keeping the core of that team together and adding free agents where needed; that's why he insisted on keeping productive players as they headed toward free agency. The Orioles also were hoping, and maybe expecting, for a much better outcome from the MASN dispute than they got, and they were enjoying pretty good attendance. 

Of course the Orioles can spend much more on payroll, and I think they should be doing that now. And maybe they will, but even if they do the comparison to Peter Angelos's 2015-17 payroll is not a fair one.

[Orioles0615]

I still firmly believe if we are losing 100 games again next year and are still actively tanking Elias needs to be held accountable 

[7Mo]

11 minutes ago, andrewochs615 said:

I still firmly believe if we are losing 100 games again next year and are still actively tanking Elias needs to be held accountable 

In what way?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, 7Mo said:

In what way?

Message board tirades.

[7Mo]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Message board tirades.

Someone yesterday said he should be barred from baseball. Got me wondering if things were worse today.

However, if he doesn't make about 5 trades in 16 hours, I might start in with the tirades too.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, 7Mo said:

Someone yesterday said he should be barred from baseball. Got me wondering if things were worse today.

However, if he doesn't make about 5 trades in 16 hours, I might start in with the tirades too.

We need some a fresh batch of 17 year old Dominicans. 

Last batch went stale.