Lowball history of the Orioles since 2000

[mweb]

Sometimes I think it'd be best if Peter Angelos had never decided to dabble in baseball.

Only sometimes?

[BaltimoreTerp]

I think it's hard to say we lowballed Vlad when he signed for 5/70, 5M more than what is being said was our initial offer. The rest I agree with.

Especially when our supposed offer at the end was around 5/75.

But when has logic or factual information ever stood in the way of people around here?

[BaltimoreTerp]

Regarding Lee. The Orioles and Lee had a 3yr/27 deal worked out after agreeing to send Dave Crouthers, who no longer is in baseball I believe, and Val Majewski to the Marlins. Angelos balked at the contract extension. It fell apart and Lee became a Cub.

I remember that, because I remember saying that it was OK because we would be keeping Val.

Oops

[geschinger]

Anyway, what I am trying to say is, once another team showed interest in Guerrero he was gone. The Orioles didn't have a chance with competition because A) They suck, and B) they wouldn't raise their offer to get him.

Wrong. He dragged the Mets along as well and the Orioles did raise their offer. It's fair to say they didn't raise it enough but completely wrong to say that they wouldn't raise their offer. As soon as a club he was interested in got involved he signed almost immediately.

If they really wanted him... they could have raised the offer and made it almost impossible for him to go elsewhere. I blame the Orioles for that.

As usual, they thought it better to save a couple million rather than sign one of the best players in the game. Shame on them.

Blaming them for not overpaying or blowing away the competetion is a fair argument. Saying we lost him by "lowballing" him is not.

[clapdiddy]

Especially when our supposed offer at the end was around 5/75.

But when has logic or factual information ever stood in the way of people around here?

I hear what you're saying, but why not offer that up front...and why not go to 6/90?

The guy was getting ready for the prime years of his career. If we made the 6/90 and he rejected it, then I could at least know we put our best offer on the table.

[TonySoprano]

Frobby this is really irresponsible of you.

The fact we lowballed Ryan doesn't matter he was made the RICHEST RELIEVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME!

Guerrero, we gave him a very good offer. The Angels came in the 11th hour and swept him away. We did not "lowball" him. We had the highest offer on the table until the Angels came into play.

Knock off the shouting. In your haste, once again, to pick up the flag and defend the fallen Orioles a few other facts seem to have been overlooked. Ryan wouldn't have been the "richest reliever in the history of the game" had we bumped up our offer in the Spring by around $5 million. He would have been under contract and not a free agent.

The Orioles last offer to Guerrero was much higher than they started. In fact, the Orioles initial offer was less than what he had just turned down from Montreal.

[Sports Guy]

Especially when our supposed offer at the end was around 5/75.

But when has logic or factual information ever stood in the way of people around here?

Certainly not in your case since the end offer was 6/78.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I hear what you're saying, but why not offer that up front...and why not go to 6/90?

The guy was getting ready for the prime years of his career. If we made the 6/90 and he rejected it, then I could at least know we put our best offer on the table.

Because nobody else was offering ANYTHING.

And then when people started to make offers, we raised ours to the point of having the best offer on the table when he signed.

I didn't, and still don't, see anything wrong with how they negotiated.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Certainly not in your case since the end offer was 6/78.

Fine. My point is still there.

[geschinger]

Bottom line on Vlad was that the orioles didn't offer him enough to make him come here.

We know he asked for 7/105 to counter the 6/78 offer...So, he was willing to come here but wanted to get paid a lot more.

We should have countered for 6/90.

If we would have done that and he still said no, then i would agree.

But we didn't, so we will never truly know.

I didn't, and still don't, see anything wrong with how they negotiated.

My biggest gripe and what I think the Orioles did wrong w/the Vladamir negotiations was handling them so publically. Seemed like every week or so while it dragged out that Beattie or Flanagan would talk about it where things at. They should of made their best offer, set a take it or leave it deadline to either accept the offer or engage in meaningful negotiations and then move on if they refused. Dragging out the process is what they did horribly wrong.

[Dipper9]

I hear what you're saying, but why not offer that up front...and why not go to 6/90?

The guy was getting ready for the prime years of his career. If we made the 6/90 and he rejected it, then I could at least know we put our best offer on the table.

When you're playing poker, do you go all on your first hand, or do you start with small amounts and build it up? When you go to an auction, do you start the bidding with the toal amount you have in your pocket, or do you just beat the guy who bid before you? There is your answer. Had we offered 5/75 to start, all that does is raise the stakes and takes you out of the bidding.

[Sports Guy]

Fine. My point is still there.

If you mean the wrong point, yes it is there.

[TonySoprano]

"This [$78 million offer] was out there a week before any of this New York [Mets] stuff started," the team official said. "We met them at a sixth year. We took the step. And that was before New Year's."

Then Saturday night, in a stirring development, Mets general manager Jim Duquette said Guerrero's lead agent, Arn Tellem, called him to say that Guerrero had decided to sign with another undisclosed team that had come forward with its offer on Thursday.

"Two teams were still alive" (Mets and Angels) with the implication being the Orioles were out of the running despite their offer.

In an interview with the New York Post, Tellem kept open the possibility that two teams were still alive. "All I can say is that the Mets made a good-faith attempt, and Vladimir decided to sign with another team," Tellem said.

Duquette's comments left the Orioles scrambling to find out if they were indeed out of the running. Team officials said they had not been told they were out by Tellem, Fernando Cuza, Diego Benz or any of Guerrero's other agents.

What made that more surprising is that only hours earlier, the Orioles had completed a deal with another of Cuza's clients, Rafael Palmeiro.

But Orioles officials also sounded almost nonplussed by the news, as if they knew it was coming. "The world will go on," another top team official said.

In mid-December, when most teams were saying they didn't have the money to sign Guerrero, the Orioles offered a five-year, $65 million contract.

Later in the month, they increased that offer to five years for $67.5 million, saying they didn't want to guarantee a sixth year because of lingering concerns about Guerrero's back. He spent 39 games on the disabled list last season with a herniated disc in his lower back, then returned to play in 62 of the Montreal Expos' final 64 games.

The Orioles, specifically Flanagan (Beattie was on vacation at the time) heard about the Guerrero signing from a reporter, not from Arn Tellem, who personally negotiated the deal with the Angels.

Guerrero's agents made an initial proposal to the Orioles asking for eight years and $145 million. They lowered those demands to seven years and $105 million, and for some time, neither side seemed willing to budge.

Eventually, the Orioles did.

After signing shortstop Miguel Tejada to a six-year, $72 million deal, and catcher Javy Lopez to a three-year, $22.5 million deal, the Orioles offered Guerrero the richest deal of the offseason.

But instead of softening, Guerrero's agents held firm, playing coy with the Orioles as they solicited interest from other teams. One top Orioles official said he thought the Guerrero camp was holding out for six years and $90 million.

That would be $15 million per season. Guerrero already turned down $15 million per year (five years, $75 million) from the Expos before declining arbitration. So far, the free-agent market obviously hasn't been as fruitful as he may have thought.

A year ago, the Philadelphia Phillies gave Jim Thome the richest deal of the offseason when they signed him to a six-year, $85.2 million deal. That's $14.2 million per season, and there is implicit pressure on Cuza and Benz to re-raise the bar with Guerrero.

The Orioles weren't willing to do that. They were more eager to compromise with Tejada, Lopez and Palmeiro because shortstop, catcher and first base were three positions they absolutely needed to fill. But if the Orioles were to lose out on Guerrero, they would still have Jay Gibbons to play right field.

"Maybe [Guerrero] just did us a favor," one Orioles official said late last night.

While the Expos final offer was 5 - $75 million, the Orioles strategy was to jump in initially at 5 - $65 million. The Orioles line in the sand was only one year and $ 3 million more than the Expos offer.

Source for the above - The Sun, Jan 10, 2004

[nadecir]

This may be the funniest quote ever made by an Oriole's official.

The Orioles weren't willing to do that. They were more eager to compromise with Tejada, Lopez and Palmeiro because shortstop, catcher and first base were three positions they absolutely needed to fill. But if the Orioles were to lose out on Guerrero, they would still have Jay Gibbons to play right field.

"Maybe [Guerrero] just did us a favor," one Orioles official said late last night.

Thank goodness we have Jay Gibbons around to replace Guerrero's production in the lineup.

[orioles119]

I think it was very telling that the Orioles negotiated with Fern Cuza and Diego Bentz, yet he was signed by his "lead agent" Arn Tellem by the Angels.