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Frobby

By Frobby
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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

Posted
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I would have liked to have seen them come to the table with more to begin with, however it wasn't terrible.

It was the ending offer that was a joke.

I wouldn't call it a joke considering no one even approached that until the Angels came out of nowhere and signed him without the O's getting a chance to up their offer. However, like I said, they should have went higher and set a deadline, although I doubt that would have worked either.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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I wouldn't call it a joke considering no one even approached that until the Angels came out of nowhere and signed him without the O's getting a chance to up their offer. However, like I said, they should have went higher and set a deadline, although I doubt that would have worked either.

I still think 6/90-96 gets him in an Orioles uni.

But we will never know.

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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I still think 6/90-96 gets him in an Orioles uni.

But we will never know.

I don't think so, but as you say, we'll never know. And we've both known each other's position on this for over 2 years now, and pretty much everyone else has weighed in with their opinions in the past on this, yet we keep on talking about it.:D

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hoosiers Hangout Grand Counsel

hoosiers

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You aren't going to change my opinion on this one. If I were Vlad Guerrero or his agent, I would not have dignified 5/$65 mm with a counteroffer. And I don't know if he would have come to Baltimore or at least gotten serious in negotiations if the initial offer had been better, but I know one thing: he's not here, and we lost out on an opportunity to sign a player who in my opinion would have changed the destiny of this franchise over the last 4 years.

Well, Frobby, I'll try one last time.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/angels/2004-01-11-guerrero-angels_x.htm

Enjoy this article. Our public offer, on the table for weeks with a 7/$105M counteroffer, was 5/$65M. The Mets final offer was a three year deal that maxed at 5/$71M and he signed ultimately for 5/$75M.

http://reds.enquirer.com/2004/01/11/red1mlbin.html

To call our initial offer "undignified" is really a massive stretch. Unbelievably, the second finalist in the Vlad sweepstakes, entering AFTER our initial offer, tried to entice Vlad with only three guaranteed years!

And yet we have quotes from Os officials that we offered 5/$67.5M and 6/$78M with an expected endgame of 6/$90M.

It's really quite simple. It's easy to write Vlad would have changed the face of the franchise - he would have changed the face of 29 other franchises.

Vlad .... did .... not ..... want .... to .... play .... in .... Baltimore.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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I don't think so, but as you say, we'll never know. And we've both known each other's position on this for over 2 years now, and pretty much everyone else has weighed in with their opinions in the past on this, yet we keep on talking about it.:D

Mine as well start trying to turn Democrats into republicans...We would probably get just as far. :)

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Mackus Hangout Grand Counsel

Mackus

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Well, Frobby, I'll try one last time.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/angels/2004-01-11-guerrero-angels_x.htm

Enjoy this article. Our public offer, on the table for weeks with a 7/$105M counteroffer, was 5/$65M. The Mets final offer was a three year deal that maxed at 5/$71M and he signed ultimately for 5/$75M.

http://reds.enquirer.com/2004/01/11/red1mlbin.html

To call our initial offer "undignified" is really a massive stretch. Unbelievably, the second finalist in the Vlad sweepstakes, entering AFTER our initial offer, tried to entice Vlad with only three guaranteed years!

And yet we have quotes from Os officials that we offered 5/$67.5M and 6/$78M with an expected endgame of 6/$90M.

It's really quite simple. It's easy to write Vlad would have changed the face of the franchise - he would have changed the face of 29 other franchises.

Vlad .... did .... not ..... want .... to .... play .... in .... Baltimore.

I agree 100%. The initial offer was low, but the way things played out, its obvious that the only way Vlad would have ended up in Baltimore is if our offer completely blew any others out of the water. We would have had to beat any other offer by multiple years and multiple millions of dollars per year to have a shot, and the obvious evidence of this is that he didn't even give us the chance to improve our offer before signing with the Angels even though he knew we would.
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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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I agree 100%. The initial offer was low, but the way things played out, its obvious that the only way Vlad would have ended up in Baltimore is if our offer completely blew any others out of the water. We would have had to beat any other offer by multiple years and multiple millions of dollars per year to have a shot, and the obvious evidence of this is that he didn't even give us the chance to improve our offer before signing with the Angels even though he knew we would.

Hmmm...kind of like Miggy.

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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I agree 100%. The initial offer was low, but the way things played out, its obvious that the only way Vlad would have ended up in Baltimore is if our offer completely blew any others out of the water. We would have had to beat any other offer by multiple years and multiple millions of dollars per year to have a shot, and the obvious evidence of this is that he didn't even give us the chance to improve our offer before signing with the Angels even though he knew we would.

And that's exactly what we did until the Angels swooped in and signed him. Plus, as you said, we were not given the opportunity to blow away the Angels offer.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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And that's exactly what we did until the Angels swooped in and signed him. Plus, as you said, we were not given the opportunity to blow away the Angels offer.

But what we don't know is if the Orioles told Vlad that 6/78 was their best offer and they weren't budging no matter what.

We know they looked at him as a luxury, so maybe that was the case.

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Mackus Hangout Grand Counsel

Mackus

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Hmmm...kind of like Miggy.
Exactly!

And I don't think the Orioles were going to top out at 6/$78M. I think they easily would have upped it to 6/$90M and maybe even a 7th year if they were given the chance to.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Exactly!

And I don't think the Orioles were going to top out at 6/$78M. I think they easily would have upped it to 6/$90M and maybe even a 7th year if they were given the chance to.

They should have done it anyway.

Should have said 6/90 as we sat there.

Bidding against ourselves or not is meaningless.

We wouldn't have been doing that...We would have been bidding to win Vlad.

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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But what we don't know is if the Orioles told Vlad that 6/78 was their best offer and they weren't budging no matter what.

We know they looked at him as a luxury, so maybe that was the case.

We've gone through this many times, so I don't care to have this go on forever, my only point on this is:

If you're Vlad's agent, even if the O's tell you that's there best offer(when they had no serious competetion), when you get a similiar offer from another team, wouldn't you go back to the O's and at least give them a last chance if you had serious interest in signing your player there? It's not like that's a lot of work, it's just making a call.

It just doesn't make any sense for his agents to not give the O's a chance to counter if they seriously thought of Baltimore as a destination for Vlad.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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We've gone through this many times, so I don't care to have this go on forever, my only point on this is:

If you're Vlad's agent, even if the O's tell you that's there best offer(when they had no serious competetion), when you get a similiar offer from another team, wouldn't you go back to the O's and at least give them a last chance if you had serious interest in signing your player there? It's not like that's a lot of work, it's just making a call.

It just doesn't make any sense for his agents to not give the O's a chance to counter if they seriously thought of Baltimore as a destination for Vlad.

Well, maybe he got tired of dealing with the team?

Who knows...All i am saying is that we should have offered more when we had the chance.

The Orioles admitted that he was a luxury, not a neccassity. Had they felt the other way, maybe he is here.

They didn't offer him enough money and they didn't recognize how much he would have meant to us. Both of those things are undeniable.

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