Luis Hernandez

[Chollie Eckman]

Yeah, who does he think he is, Sports Guy???

Eli Eon is to Luis Hernandez as Sports Guy is to Casey Kotchman.

[Frobby]

I think we need to separate two propositions:

1. The team would be better off getting a superior defensive SS and moving Miggy to a new position.

2. The team would be better off putting Luis Hernandez at SS and moving Miggy to a new position.

Luis Hernandez has played over his head over a short period of time -- both offensively and defensively. I'm glad that he has, because that has been good for the team. Over time, though, he will find his level.

For Orioles: .321/.345/.393, 0 errors over 10 games

For Bowie/Norfolk: .244/.277/.308, 9 errors over 77 games

2006: .256/.290/.322 (don't know about his fielding)

[Eli Eon]

I think we need to separate two propositions:

1. The team would be better off getting a superior defensive SS and moving Miggy to a new position.

2. The team would be better off putting Luis Hernandez at SS and moving Miggy to a new position.

Luis Hernandez has played over his head over a short period of time -- both offensively and defensively. I'm glad that he has, because that has been good for the team. Over time, though, he will find his level.

For Orioles: .321/.345/.393, 0 errors over 10 games

For Bowie/Norfolk: .244/.277/.308, 9 errors over 77 games

2006: .256/.290/.322 (don't know about his fielding)

Good point. I am in no way saying that Louis Hernandez is a long term solution to the shortstop position for the Baltimore Orioles. He could or could not be. What I am espousing is that Miguel Tejada is not as his defense is not elite. A defensive upgrade is much needed as has been shown since Tejada has had to sit out. I have nothing against Tejada at all. I like his hitting, but his defense at short I am not happy with when it can be easily upgraded whether we keep him or not.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Good point. I am in no way saying that Louis Hernandez is a long term solution to the shortstop position for the Baltimore Orioles. He could or could not be. What I am espousing is that Miguel Tejada is not as his defense is not elite. A defensive upgrade is much needed as has been shown since Tejada has had to sit out. I have nothing against Tejada at all. I like his hitting, but his defense at short I am not happy with when it can be easily upgraded whether we keep him or not.

Well then you needed to say that about 200 posts ago

That is the whole point: if you can upgrade the defense from Tejada (whether or not we agree on what that level is) you do it, however you do it while not having an negative effect on other parts of the team.

[Eli Eon]

Well then you needed to say that about 200 posts ago

That is the whole point: if you can upgrade the defense from Tejada (whether or not we agree on what that level is) you do it, however you do it while not having an negative effect on other parts of the team.

Yes that is it in a nutshell. However, the next argument is whether Tejada should DH or move to the outfield the remainder of the season. I think so, but there are arguments against it and I very much doubt it happens. I wish it would though as I think the team would benefit from it.

[Mackus]

What I am espousing is that Miguel Tejada is not as his defense is not elite. A defensive upgrade is much needed as has been shown since Tejada has had to sit out. I have nothing against Tejada at all. I like his hitting, but his defense at short I am not happy with when it can be easily upgraded whether we keep him or not.

An elite defensive SS is not a neccesity.

A players contributions comes from two factors, their bat and their glove. If Tejada gets you 50 runs above average at the plate and 10 above with the glove, he's worth 60 runs above average. If Adam Everett gets you 40 runs above average with the glove and 10 runs below average with the bat, then he's worth 30 runs above average. So (those are made up numbers, btw) even though Everett is an excellent defensive SS his great glove can't make up for his weak bat.

If you get a guy who's elite glove can make up for his bat, then great, but even the bestest of the best fielders will need to be able to hit at least close to average for that to be possible.

[Eli Eon]

An elite defensive SS is not a neccesity.

A players contributions comes from two factors, their bat and their glove. If Tejada gets you 50 runs above average at the plate and 10 above with the glove, he's worth 60 runs above average. If Adam Everett gets you 40 runs above average with the glove and 10 runs below average with the bat, then he's worth 30 runs above average. So (those are made up numbers, btw) even though Everett is an excellent defensive SS his great glove can't make up for his weak bat.

If you get a guy who's elite glove can make up for his bat, then great, but even the bestest of the best fielders will need to be able to hit at least close to average for that to be possible.

My point is why not have a guy like Everett at short where he is great defensively and Tejada elsewhere for his bat? Why put a guy like Tejada at shortstop under the guise that his bat makes up for his defense when you can put him somewhere else where his defense is not an issue at all (DH or possibly LF). You still have his main attribute that you benefit from along with a much better defensive guy at a key position? This was a formula used with great success by the classic Orioles teams of the Robinson era. They had Blair, Belanger and Etchebarren. All three were among the weakest hitters on the team but great defensively. You don't need to have great hitters at every position if you get great defense out of the key positions and great offense out of the remainder of the positions.

[Mackus]

My point is why not have Everett at short where he is great defensively and Tejada elsewhere for his bat? Why put a guy like Tejada at shortstop under the guise that his bat makes up for his defense when you can put him somewhere else where his defense is not an issue at all (DH or possibly LF). You still have his main attribute that you benefit from along with a much better defensive guy at a key position?

Because Tejada's bat at DH or 3B is not as much of an asset as it is at SS. He's an elite bat at SS compared to other SS. He's merely a good bat (or even average at DH/1B) at other positions compared to the guys playing those positions.

[DrungoHazewood]

Because Tejada's bat at DH or 3B is not as much of an asset as it is at SS. He's an elite bat at SS compared to other SS. He's merely a good bat (or even average at DH/1B) at other positions compared to the guys playing those positions.

In other words:

Finding a defensive shortstop who can't hit at all: Easy, inexpensive

Finding a DH or 1B who can hit fairly well: Easy, inexpensive

Finding shortstop who can hit as well as Tejada: Hard, expensive

Moving Tejada to DH/1B is an inefficient use of resources.

[Eli Eon]

Because Tejada's bat at DH or 3B is not as much of an asset as it is at SS. He's an elite bat at SS compared to other SS. He's merely a good bat (or even average at DH/1B) at other positions compared to the guys playing those positions.

I don't see how you can say that. How many DH's have driven in 150 runs in one season? Tejada can flat out hit! Don't try to sell it that his average is way below par when he has been a DH as the sample size would be meaningless. If he DH'ed from now until he ended his career his numbers would be no different than his career numbers so far, maybe even better because he wouldn't have the wear and tear of playing the field.

[Eli Eon]

In other words:

Finding a defensive shortstop who can't hit at all: Easy, inexpensive

Finding a DH or 1B who can hit fairly well: Easy, inexpensive

Finding shortstop who can hit as well as Tejada: Hard, expensive

Moving Tejada to DH/1B is an inefficient use of resources.

I strongly disagree.

The DH's on this team have I believe been below average in power, average and rbi's. Tejada would elevate the numbers at the DH spot, just as a better fielding shortstop would improve the defense and pitching.

[bgfield]

I strongly disagree.

The DH's on this team have I believe been below average in power, average and rbi's. Tejada would elevate the numbers at the DH spot, just as a better fielding shortstop would improve the defense and pitching.

It shouldn't be as hard as it has been for us to find a good 1B/DH. Hell, they've got guys in the minors who may be able to do that.

Bottom line is: If we are looking to trade Tejada (and we should) then moving him from SS is going to greatly reduce his trade value. This is why we can't move Tejada. And it's not like having a great defensive short stop is going to mean anything this season anyway.

[Eli Eon]

It shouldn't be as hard as it has been for us to find a good 1B/DH. Hell, they've got guys in the minors who may be able to do that.

Bottom line is: If we are looking to trade Tejada (and we should) then moving him from SS is going to greatly reduce his trade value. This is why we can't move Tejada. And it's not like having a great defensive short stop is going to mean anything this season anyway.

You may be right but I don't see it that way. To me Tejada's big value is his bat period. You could play him anywhere or DH him and that is his value, not his defense, which is average to good.

[Leitch]

Why put a guy like Tejada at shortstop under the guise that his bat makes up for his defense when you can put him somewhere else where his defense is not an issue at all (DH or possibly LF). You still have his main attribute that you benefit from along with a much better defensive guy at a key position?

A: Tejada's bat is a plus at shortstop, because there are like, what 2 shortstops that are better hitters than Miggy. Tejada's bat is average or worse at DH, where the offensive expectations are higher, because there are like at least 10 DHs that are better hitters than Miggy.

B: His defense is not an issue at short. This really can't be any simpler - the Orioles have allowed the fewest hits per nine innings in major league baseball, have been at that level for like 90% of the year, have turned the second most balls in play into outs in the AL(behind OAK and somebody else tied for first), and are very good at run prevention. Defense is not a problem for the Orioles. Offense is a problem for the Orioles.

C: "Under the guise his bat makes up for his defense"? Dear God, man, the guy is a 10+ win player every year. Not just because of the stick, but because of the glove. If you replaced Tejada with Luis Hernandez or a Luis Hernandez equivalent in 2004-2006, we'd have probably lost about 100 games in all of those years.

I'm sure if Tejada had the chance, he would apologize to you for not being Honus Wagner and Cal Ripken all rolled into one, but he might also mention that your standards are just a smidge on the high side, and that he has been an extremely strong MVP candidate every single year that he has been in Baltimore.

[Eli Eon]

A: Tejada's bat is a plus at shortstop, because there are like, what 2 shortstops that are better hitters than Miggy. Tejada's bat is average or worse at DH, where the offensive expectations are higher, because there are like at least 10 DHs that are better hitters than Miggy.

B: His defense is not an issue at short. This really can't be any simpler - the Orioles have allowed the fewest hits per nine innings in major league baseball, have been at that level for like 90% of the year, have turned the second most balls in play into outs in the AL(behind OAK and somebody else tied for first), and are very good at run prevention. Defense is not a problem for the Orioles. Offense is a problem for the Orioles.

C: "Under the guise his bat makes up for his defense"? Dear God, man, the guy is a 10+ win player every year. Not just because of the stick, but because of the glove. If you replaced Tejada with Luis Hernandez or a Luis Hernandez equivalent in 2004-2006, we'd have probably lost about 100 games in all of those years.

I'm sure if Tejada had the chance, he would apologize to you for not being Honus Wagner and Cal Ripken all rolled into one, but he might also mention that your standards are just a smidge on the high side, and that he has been an extremely strong MVP candidate every single year that he has been in Baltimore.

Uh, show me the 10 DH's you are talking about that during Tejada's career have had better numbers in BA, RBI's and HR's, which is the big three in my book. I can think of a handful but where are you getting TEN? I think you are pulling this number out of thin air!