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2022 MLB Draft Discussion (Use this thread to discuss all picks, not Orioles picks)

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, foxfield said:

Sigh....

You are a odd bird who can be disagreeable even when being agreed with....but that is your superpower...so.

I am not delusional and I said nothing approaching a dispute that the Orioles were not tanking.  Elias has never stated, though you very well know, that winning does not matter.  What he has said, was that during the previous three years, they were not focused on the results at the major league level.  He has not said that about this year though his approach has been pretty close to the same.

That is a virtual guarantee that there will not be many wins, and it has driven many fans crazy.  But that does not mean in any way that when the game begins they are not trying to win.  There is contextual difference in the two statements and your version, which is that the Orioles are losing games intentionally.  What I said was, this is a gross oversimplification.

That is to say, that saying it the way you do, is stating out of context what is happening.  And I held your oversimplified statement up to your other statement which was a direct comparison to the 2018 team, which had elite talent, a payroll ranked around 15, and somehow, while "trying to win" puked out 47 wins.  

I share your view that the O's could have made a stronger effort with a SP or 3B for this year.  I hope the draft brings us lots of elite talent.  

Overall, I think it is too early to judge Elias and am neither pro or con regarding his performance.  I believe the measurement of his value can begin somewhere around the end of this season. But I wholeheartedly support the total tear down and rebuild after 2018.  My ruling from the jury on the Elias' tenure today is probably still premature.

I also think the Angelos ownership must end before the organization finds sustainable success, but that doesn't mean success isn't possible without new ownership.  

You often advocate for payroll, and stated that 2018 was an example of how that proved the team was trying to win.  I do not like all of what I have seen since 2018, but again, if 47 wins is trying to win and what the Orioles are doing now, is intentionally losing, then they suck at it.   Does that mean they are not tanking?  I didn't say that.  

 

The argument that the players on the r field and the coaches aren’t trying to lose is such a bad one.  No shit!  No one has ever said differently but they are into situations where they are completely over and the team knows it.

So yes, the organization is absolutely trying to lose.  You want to dress it up, throw make up on it and try to make it prettier than it is.  But it’s still losing on purpose no matter how you want it phrased.

And when that is your intention, as I said, you have one advantage..the draft.  They should be using that advantage to the fullest.  Taking a guy at 1 who is the 8th best player on the board while passing on potential generational talent is a dumb decision.

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justD
justD

I was recalling this morning how weams and I would be frantically collecting information to post in the Draft Tracker thread, for two or three years that I remember.  I could in no way do that now.  I

ShoelesJoe
ShoelesJoe

I don’t understand the “Jones or Bust” crowd here, as if he’s a guaranteed sure thing perennial All Star going forward. Chances are good that he’ll be a productive major league player, but it’s also l

Tony-OH
Tony-OH

Johnson seems like just a 1st rate kid on top of being a great hitter. Hopefully the Orioles didn't miss on him because he was short and probably a 2nd baseman. I'll root for him.

RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

Posted
Posted

We agree and we disagree.  Passing on a player who is #1 on YOUR board for a player who is #8 on YOUR board is dumb.

You buy 100% into consensus.  I leave open the possibility that consensus can be wrong.  

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Posted
1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

We agree and we disagree.  Passing on a player who is #1 on YOUR board for a player who is #8 on YOUR board is dumb.

You buy 100% into consensus.  I leave open the possibility that consensus can be wrong.  

Ok.  So do you also believe the consensus is wrong about our organization ranking?  Or that Adley is the top prospect?  Grayson isn’t the top pitching prospect, etc…?

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RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

Posted
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13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Ok.  So do you also believe the consensus is wrong about our organization ranking?  Or that Adley is the top prospect?  Grayson isn’t the top pitching prospect, etc…?

I believe unless someone makes a good argument or provides evidence otherwise.  

Consensus had Austin Martin as the 1st or 2nd best player in the 2020 draft.  Do you think consensus was right or wrong?

 

 

 

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

I believe unless someone makes a good argument or provides evidence otherwise.  

 

Well, evidence will never be provided to you in terms of how the Os stack their draft board.

Seems to me that if you are going to trust the consensus, you should be consistent with it.

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RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, evidence will never be provided to you in terms of how the Os stack their draft board.

Seems to me that if you are going to trust the consensus, you should be consistent with it.

On the first paragraph we agree.  I am only using logic.  I believe and hope that Elias is smart.  He has said the first pick is the most important.  He has said that you are more likely to get a prodigious talent with a HS player.  Therefore, if he were to pass on Jones, I would expect that he had serious reservations about him on the baseball field and disagreed with the consensus.  I  am not an expert. We hope that Elias is.  

As for agreeing with consensus, I  am going to accept it because I'm not an expert.  If I see an "expert" going against consensus I'm going to listen or at least take a wait and see attitude. 

 

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btdart20 Hangout Veteran Council

btdart20

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Mayo needs to at least pretend to not be fishing for an audience!  "No inside information" yet switches to chalk after going with conspiracy earlier?  

This is my third mock, and I had yet to put the best player in the top spot. That changes now as I do think it's quite possible the Orioles just take the best player on the board in Jones. With absolutely no inside information on this, I get a bit of a feel that the top pick will be Jones

 

MLB Draft Combine 2022 details - more helium after 6/14-6/20.

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seak05 All-Star

seak05

Posted
Posted
On 6/2/2022 at 5:53 PM, RZNJ said:

Only one thing will make most people happy.   Andruw Jones being the pick on draft day.

In this forum that's certainly accurate. I'm going to say for the record though that I would be fine with Holliday. 

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RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

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Posted
Just now, seak05 said:

In this forum that's certainly accurate. I'm going to say for the record though that I would be fine with Holliday. 

I'm a Kool Aid sipper.  I'm on board with whoever they take.   Personal preference is Jones.  

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seak05 All-Star

seak05

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I suspect if the Orioles do draft Jones, fans my be upset with his performance. A large portion of his value lies in his defense, and it's generally harder to see that on the box score. Meanwhile his biggest question mark is his hit tool 

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Flash- bd Veteran All-Star

Flash- bd

Posted
Posted

With Green having such fine upside, Holliday being such an interesting all-around prospect, and Temarr Johnson having such an intriguing hit tool (he might be my favorite with Jones for the first pick, honestly), and Brooks Lee also looking like he has a hugely interesting hit tool, I'm honestly not going to be disappointed with either of those 5 at 1:1. 

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