Hall of Fame 2009

[tennOsfan]

I voted Henderson and Blyleven. I'd definitely vote for Raines on the second time around, but I don't put him as an equivalent to Rickey. Rickey was the most exciting player I've ever witnessed play.

Blyleven has the career numbers worthy of the Hall, and his curveball is still considered one of the best in history. He is simply worthy of the honor.

Jim Rice's road numbers weigh against him ever getting in, IMO. I hope that the national obsession with Red Sox Nation does not get in the way of good common sense on this. If Rice gets in, I think Ken Singleton deserves greater consideration -- so there!

An argument could probably be made for Andre Dawson. For a good stretch he was one of the best all-around players in the game.

[Migrant Redbird]

Would you care so much about McGwire if he wasn't a Cardinal?

Be honest.

No. But McGwire still belongs in the HOF.

I probably wouldn't dislike Rickey Henderson and Barry Bonds as much either if they had played for the Cards, but I still think they belong in the HOF. The difference between Bonds and McGwire? Bonds was definitely better, but we also know definitely that Bonds used steroids religiously and there's no way to measure how much of an impact that had on his career. But like I said, there's no way to know if Henderson or any other HOF candidate was clean either.

We send people to the electric chair if the evidence is sufficient, while allowing murderers to go free when the evidence isn't enough to convict. If you have proof that someone used steroids, I think that you can use it as a factor in your vote. Otherwise, no matter how strong your suspicions, I think that you need to set the steroids factor aside.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Picked Henderson and Bly. Also would vote for McGwire and Raines but they were not poll options.

[sakata_catching]

Picked Henderson and Bly. Also would vote for McGwire and Raines but they were not poll options.

Same for me. And I'm hoping the Veteran's Committee votes in Ron Santo and Dick Allen as well.

[Maverick2143]

Ricky, Blyleven, & Raines are definite's.

I also said yes to Rice, but I can understand the arguments against him.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Tim Raines. Well, obviously Rickey Henderson is #1, but I think Raines is the second best player on the ballot.

[mweb]

No. But McGwire still belongs in the HOF.

I probably wouldn't dislike Rickey Henderson and Barry Bonds as much either if they had played for the Cards, but I still think they belong in the HOF. The difference between Bonds and McGwire? Bonds was definitely better, but we also know definitely that Bonds used steroids religiously and there's no way to measure how much of an impact that had on his career. But like I said, there's no way to know if Henderson or any other HOF candidate was clean either.

We send people to the electric chair if the evidence is sufficient, while allowing murderers to go free when the evidence isn't enough to convict. If you have proof that someone used steroids, I think that you can use it as a factor in your vote. Otherwise, no matter how strong your suspicions, I think that you need to set the steroids factor aside.

The difference is Bonds was clearly a HOF'er without steroids, while we don't know that concerning McGwire. But I'd still put him in like I said.

[Migrant Redbird]

The difference is Bonds was clearly a HOF'er without steroids,...

You don't know that because you don't know when Bonds began using steroids or how much they helped him. There is an assumption by many baseball fans that Bonds didn't begin using steroids until he vaulted from 34 home runs in 1999 to 73 home runs in 2001, but that jump in performance could merely have coincided with him getting a scientifically developed dosage schedule from BALCO. Bonds may already have been experimenting with steroids by the time he reached the major leagues.

When Tom House confessed he used steroids back in the sixties and seventies and explained how he used them, I figure he's probably telling the truth about his own usage. Link When House estimated that six or seven pitchers on every team were using steroids when he was, I figure he might be telling the truth or he might be exaggerating.

"I pretty much popped everything cold turkey," House said. "We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s, when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There's a lot more research and understanding."

And Bonds apparently gained the benefit of all that BALCO research with enhancing the performance of olympic athletes at the time he boosted his home run production. There is no evidence to support the prevalent assumption among baseball fans that Bonds hadn't used steroids prior to that point. It's possible he hadn't, but we have no way of knowing unless Bonds comes out with an honest account of his usage. Even if that happened, we'd have no way of knowing just how candid he was being.

[MikeAD]

I can't wait until every Hall of Fame discussion doesn't turn into a "he-said, she-said" about steroids. Hopefully that will come after Bonds gets in, or a few years after.

I voted for Henderson.

[mweb]

No we don't know for sure when Bonds started using, however, we have a good enough idea to go off it. So I stand by my comments.

[cmcgarvey]

With Bonds you can get an idea of when he started his steroid use by his steal rate. His rate dropped by almost half from 98, when he had 28, to 99, when he had 15. He didn't even try to steal a base in the last month of the season.

[YardBirds13]

With Bonds you can get an idea of when he started his steroid use by his steal rate. His rate dropped by almost half from 98, when he had 28, to 99, when he had 15. He didn't even try to steal a base in the last month of the season.

Or maybe he just got older and stole less bases?

The finger pointing in this whole steroid mess is ridiculous.

Nobody knows when people started, so why try to guess?

If Bonds doesn't get in on his first try, I may literally go postal on every member of the BBWAA. Seriously. Dude was the greatest player I ever saw play baseball, if he doesn't get in, argh, I'm already getting myself upset.

[Moose Milligan]

No we don't know for sure when Bonds started using, however, we have a good enough idea to go off it. So I stand by my comments.

Seriously...declining homers in consecutive seasons from 42, 40, 37, 34...then all of a sudden jumping up to 49 and then 73. Plus increased muscle mass.

Anyone who claims they can't make an educated guess on when Bonds started juicing is being intentionally naive.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Or maybe he just got older and stole less bases?

The finger pointing in this whole steroid mess is ridiculous.

Nobody knows when people started, so why try to guess?

If Bonds doesn't get in on his first try, I may literally go postal on every member of the BBWAA. Seriously. Dude was the greatest player I ever saw play baseball, if he doesn't get in, argh, I'm already getting myself upset.

He gets in when Joe Jackson and Pete Rose get in, in my mind.

[mweb]

Seriously...declining homers in consecutive seasons from 42, 40, 37, 34...then all of a sudden jumping up to 49 and then 73. Plus increased muscle mass.

Anyone who claims they can't make an educated guess on when Bonds started juicing is being intentionally naive.

Plus there's the story that he he saw what Big Mac and Sosa did, got jealous, so decided to try to be like them. I also haven't seen anything that suggest he used earlier in his career.