Orioles looking to trade Means?

[HowAboutThat]

34 minutes ago, Frobby said:

OK, time to go sign Rutschman.  

No. Doesn’t matter if he’s the risen Savior, trade him at peak value and move onto the next guy.

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It won’t take 100s of millions unless he demands that, which tells you he has no desire to be here long term.  He can’t and won’t approach the Franco deal.  Maybe he gets the Acuna deal and even that is a stretch Imo.

What do you think an 8 year extension looks like for him?  Surely north of 100 million.

[interloper]

36 minutes ago, Frobby said:

OK, time to go sign Rutschman.  

If we want the O's to mimic the Rays, then we need to see how he does after some time in the bigs like they did with Franco. Also, this is the very first contract of this type for a rookie player, so this is totally new ground. I do hope the O's are this bold at some point. We shall see.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Sessh said:

Hey guys, long time no see. The site looks great. I always come back here every now and then hoping to see that progress has happened and talk is starting to shift towards winning, but now I see the Orioles are having another sell off and winning in 2022 isn't important... which I guess means winning in 2023 isn't either. I think that was the goal at the beginning of the Elias era, but it seems there's just been a lot of wheel spinning? I keep hoping I'll come back to check in and feel bad about having lost my fire for baseball and just end up disappointed. I just read that another strike seems likely, too.

It's hard to believe this team was actually a playoff team for a few years only to be back to this again. I feel for you guys and really hope the Orioles return to relevance again before another four decades pass by.

Welcome back. We never are at a loss for things to talk about, even with a losing team. lol 

Hopefully that's changing.

[interloper]

1 hour ago, Sessh said:

Hey guys, long time no see. The site looks great. I always come back here every now and then hoping to see that progress has happened and talk is starting to shift towards winning, but now I see the Orioles are having another sell off and winning in 2022 isn't important... which I guess means winning in 2023 isn't either. I think that was the goal at the beginning of the Elias era, but it seems there's just been a lot of wheel spinning? I keep hoping I'll come back to check in and feel bad about having lost my fire for baseball and just end up disappointed. I just read that another strike seems likely, too.

It's hard to believe this team was actually a playoff team for a few years only to be back to this again. I feel for you guys and really hope the Orioles return to relevance again before another four decades pass by.

Welcome back, but this is definitely not the case IMO. If you can't get excited about what Elias has been doing and the improvements in so many areas of the organizations, I don't really think this is for you. Which is fine, but that's a pretty casual perspective to have about the team is all. 

I'm not sure why folks who were fine with 15 years of losing and then got 4 years of winning baseball suddenly can't stand to muster a few years of losing while the organization gets modernized. After being decades behind the game. After the winning years showed exactly why the organization was poorly built/managed when it all completely collapsed the moment its stars aged out. Surely that kind of undertaking is worth a few years of losing. But do you. 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Just Regular said:

Fun table.   Are the first three numbers kind of converting the player's performance into feet/second vs. the MLB average?   The 4th one looks close to the sum of the first three, with some allowance for rounding things off to one decimal point. 

I think that is what they are doing and if so, enjoy the Hernandez/Mullins Reaction/Route contrast.  It kind of suggests to me Mullins needs a split second to discern where to go, but then moves efficiently, whereas Hernandez is off in a flash but the end result won't be a straight line.   I couldn't guess which one of those components might be more refinable with coaching and/or many years of practice in MLB stadiums.   Burst seems pretty straight forward speed, ya got it or ya don't.

Yes, you got it. I was astounded by Hernandez's burst. Covering 4 more feet than an average outfielder between 1.6 and 3 seconds is pretty amazing. 

Here are the rest of he explanations: https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outfield_jump

[Sports Guy]

19 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I understand what you are saying here and honestly, I would not be ok with another 2021 season where the team was bringing up players that had no business in the major leagues.

While I'm not against adding players who will be here for 4 years or so, I just don't see the difference maker free agents for this team. Now, if Kris Bryant was willing to sig a one year contract and hope a year of hitting in Camden Yards could make him more valuable, then yes, I'd give him a one year $20 million contract and hope he doesn't kill the team defensively. Am I going to sign him for 4-5 years? No, because Henderson and Mayo could be long term solutions at 3B and could be ready by 2023.

I'm not convinced Stroman or Gausman is the answer this year for the rotation though they could help. I also don't see them wanting to pitch here if they have other options.

Would you be upset with an opening Day rotation of:

1. Means
2. T. Wells
3. Lowther
4. Bradish
5. Zimmermann

By May bring up Rodriguez is he's pitching well

Bullpen:

CL: Lopez - RHP
RP: Scott - LHP
RP: Bautista - RHP
RP:  Sulser - RHP
RP: Baumann - RHP
RP -Tate - RHP
RP: Akin - LHP
RP: Kremer - RHP

If they move Means, you have to hope they have a nearly ready SP in return. 

Yea, that rotation is not good but I would rather see that than the collection of BS we had to watch in 2021.

I would rather see: Stroman, Means, GRod, Pablo Lopez and Zimmerman/Akin/ et al and that rotation is very doable.

I don’t know what deal Stroman is going to get.  ERod got 5/77.  
 

Will Stroman, who is older, get the 5th year as well?  Maybe…he will certainly get a higher AAV.

I would offer 4/100.  See where things stand.  If teams are valuing closer to ERod money, ie 15-19M a year range, that type of offer could make really get his attention.  
 

It really wouldn’t be difficult to put together a very solid and exciting team in 2022 while also keeping your long term focus.

[Tony-OH]

51 minutes ago, waroriole said:

That’s not cheap. Taking out the minimum years, it still pays him more than 20M per year. 

Wow! That's quite the investment on a young player. He's is a great talent though. He's going to be an amazing player to watch.

[Sydnor]

9 minutes ago, Philip said:

No. Doesn’t matter if he’s the risen Savior, trade him at peak value and move onto the next guy.

You sign a player like Adley to enhance his trade value. Going year to year in arbitration and not having cost certainty beyond the duration of the current 6 years of team competition control provides the team with less leverage. Tampa is signing Wander Franco to a deal that could last 12 years and worth up to $223 million. The Orioles absolutely should try to lock in Adley for a lesser term than Franco, but still significant. You can trade him later if you get the right return.

[Tony-OH]

46 minutes ago, Frobby said:

OK, time to go sign Rutschman.  

Gotta see his first year in the big leagues and then you have to be careful with catchers breaking down around 30. Under the current CBA, Rutschman won't be eligible for free agency until he's 30 years old. At that point, the Orioles should be annual contenders and should have the finances to resign him if he's still good. 

[Can_of_corn]

57 minutes ago, waroriole said:

That’s not cheap. Taking out the minimum years, it still pays him more than 20M per year. 

It's cheap.

Not Acuna cheap, but cheap.

[HowAboutThat]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

Welcome back, but this is definitely not the case IMO. If you can't get excited about what Elias has been doing and the improvements in so many areas of the organizations, I don't really think this is for you. Which is fine, but that's a pretty casual perspective to have about the team is all. 

I'm not sure why folks who were fine with 15 years of losing and then got 4 years of winning baseball suddenly can't stand to muster a few years of losing while the organization gets modernized. After being decades behind the game. After the winning years showed exactly why the organization was poorly built/managed when it all completely collapsed the moment its stars aged out. Surely that kind of undertaking is worth a few years of losing. But do you. 

I think you’re missing the meaningful difference between the two eras. Those other years were spent attempting to win now and involved almost exclusively shortsighted decisions. 

It’s like adding more sugar to a cake made of mud. It’s just wasteful.

Now we have a direction and a plan and we are executing it well.

The debate now is about where we are in the plan and whether the time has come to pivot from accumulating talent to accumulating victories: now or next season?

I strongly feel that we can improve the product on the field with meaningful acquisitions and careful trades and improve the on field product significantly without jeopardizing any long-term plans.

I will be furious with rage if the team wins <60 games again. 
The time to pivot is now.

[connja]

Means for Bobby Witt and Asa Lacy.

They have Mondesi and Lopez for SS, and lots of young SP.  

Would you do it?

[Sports Guy]

16 minutes ago, Pickles said:

What do you think an 8 year extension looks like for him?  Surely north of 100 million.

Well since I said the Acuna deal, that would be 8/100.

You said hundreds of millions.  I was thinking you meant like what Wander just got or something like that.  If that’s not what you meant by 100s of millions, my bad (I was thinking 100s of millions was 200M+).

And btw, that’s just off the top of my head.  I would have to research to see C contracts and whatnot..that may even be too much.

[ChuckS]

I don't understand trading Means unless the timeline to start competing is now 2024/2025.  If we plan to be competitive in two years, I'm not sure where the pitching is going to come from.  Means seems to me like the type of player we would be trading for with our excess of position prospects and not the type we would be trading away. 

Don't forgot that prospect for prospect deals do not really happen.  The type of arms that will be available to us are going to be the type that start hitting arbitration and get more expensive, like Means.