MLB Lockout Thread

[Sanfran327]

18 minutes ago, osfan83 said:

I pretty much disagree with this. The names of the players change all the time. Our favorite 2035 Orioles are currently in elementary school. Yes, the level of play needs to be strong, but the game transcends the current owners and players. 

Give me 30 new owners and swap out half the current players with ones just on the cusp, make the games crisp and competitive and I think we would be fine. 

 

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea but the players are the team.  They go hand in hand.

The tweet is actually completely spot-on. In fact, as I read osfan's reply, which is a reasonable opinion, I thought to myself more or less verbatim what the tweet said (I read the response before the tweet because I read the thread backwards lol). 

Sorry, but Passan is right. The players are the product and the game/league is the framework that enables it. The players make the game exciting with their elite physical abilities. Going to the next 1200 players would just absolutely not be fun to watch night in and night out. Minor League games and college games are fun in a pinch as a novelty, not a main attraction. 

And while I know this will ruffle some feathers around here because people don't like hearing about how we're a small market team (or mid market at best), the players' demands really do need to be heard and addressed. It will hurt our team and help our rivals because of the way we spend. I loved Manny Machado and still feel a little something every time I see him in a Padres uniform. To me, he's our guy. But a player's prime is short if they even get one. They need to be able to get to that second contract sooner, and there needs to be fewer loopholes (incentives?) for teams to keep them in the minors longer than they need to be. In any other sport, Adley Rutschman would have been starting for his team last year. MLB is messed up, and the O's didn't want to waste a good year for their best player on a last-place team, and the institution allows it to happen. 

I'm rambling, but I know that I am on the side of the players. I am definitely an O's fan first and foremost over any player, but the players make the game fun, and watching a bunch of AA-AAAA players in an Orioles uniform would not be fun for anyone. 

[Sports Guy]

19 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

But only to a point.  Players come and go.  We've had Robinsons and Palmers and Ripkens and Murrays leave, retire, get traded, etc and yet the team is still here.  The team is bigger than any player, or even groups of players.  While players are the product, it's temporary where the team is much more constant, at least in most cases.  

Yea, the team is bigger than any one player but the team is the players.  
 

If you replaced the Orioles with an independent league team and had no promising MiL future, it’s not like you would be as into them as you are now.

[seak05]

21 minutes ago, osfan83 said:

Yes, but ANY good players are the team. Replace all of the current O's with 25 new guys I know nothing about, and if they are hanging around a playoff spot in June, I wont miss the old guys one bit. 

But mediocre players aren't the team. The players aren't the product because of their names, the players are the product because they are the pinnacle of the talent pool. If you replace major league players, with players who are of a lesser talent level...people stop watching major league baseball. 

I can guarantee you though, if you replace the owners with other rich people...it doesn't impact the level of the product one is consuming. 

Some people around here are just upset that players get paid a lot of money, and are therefore totally ok with richer people getting paid even more. 

[btdart20]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

 

It's appropriate that he used Babe Ruth and the list of Yankees as his primary example.  The team that buys the most talent tends to rise to the top.  To me, the most important part of the mess baseball finds itself in is parity.  The current revenue sharing doesn't seem to do that. It gives a "minimum wage" to small-market owners and they can cast off the competition dreams until tomorrow.  

Until the lack of parity is truly addressed, the game will drift to less and less competition.  Or competition in fits and starts in the name of a rebuild.  The compensation will work itself out in the long run if there is a competitive hope for the small/mid-market teams.  But this strike is completely short term/get mine while I'm in the league focused.

What's being addressed now has very little to competition and what fans want.  It has everything to do with player compensation (and everything else is a bargaining chip).  

We're seeing some pretty special talent across the MLB right now.  Ohtani, Tatis, Vlad Jr., Mike Trout, Soto, some really good pitchers, match-up specialists, crazy analytic driving training...  Such a shame that the business torpedoes the game...

[Sports Guy]

 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

It's appropriate that he used Babe Ruth and the list of Yankees as his primary example.  The team that buys the most talent tends to rise to the top.  To me, the most important part of the mess baseball finds itself in is parity.  The current revenue sharing doesn't seem to do that. It gives a "minimum wage" to small-market owners and they can cast off the competition dreams until tomorrow.  

Until the lack of parity is truly addressed, the game will drift to less and less competition.  Or competition in fits and starts in the name of a rebuild.  The compensation will work itself out in the long run if there is a competitive hope for the small/mid-market teams.  But this strike is completely short term/get mine while I'm in the league focused.

What's being addressed now has very little to competition and what fans want.  It has everything to do with player compensation (and everything else is a bargaining chip).  

We're seeing some pretty special talent across the MLB right now.  Ohtani, Tatis, Vlad Jr., Mike Trout, Soto, some really good pitchers, match-up specialists, crazy analytic driving training...  Such a shame that the business torpedoes the game...

There is a ton of parity in MLB.  

[MCO'sFan]

2 minutes ago, seak05 said:

But mediocre players aren't the team. The players aren't the product because of their names, the players are the product because they are the pinnacle of the talent pool. If you replace major league players, with players who are of a lesser talent level...people stop watching major league baseball. 

I can guarantee you though, if you replace the owners with other rich people...it doesn't impact the level of the product one is consuming. 

Some people around here are just upset that players get paid a lot of money, and are therefore totally ok with richer people getting paid even more. 

Other people really and truly don't care about who makes what money. They both make too much money off of the fans. The fans, IMHO, are truly the game. Without them, it wouldn't matter who played and who owed they team. It's the age old question about a tree in the woods falling. If someone hit a home run and no one was there to see it would it really matter?

I am not on either side. I just want to follow and root for my favorite team.  I am willing to invest my time and money towards that goal. I read this thread to get quick updates on the negotiations.I get that there is not much else to talk about but this constant back and forth about who deserves what is tiresome. I ignore it most of the time but, sometimes I just get frustrated and chime in with my two cents worth.   I will now go back to ignoring it. 

[jabba72]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 

Which reminds me of the Chris Davis retirement/buyout. Did Boras know something could jeopardize Davis's salary so he jumped in front of it? That decision wont look too swift if the season starts June 15th.  

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

Which reminds me of the Chris Davis retirement/buyout. Did Boras know something could jeopardize Davis's salary so he jumped in front of it? That decision wont look too swift if the season starts June 15th.  

We don't know the terms in Davis contract.  He might lose money if the season is delayed.

[jabba72]

10 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

Other people really and truly don't care about who makes what money. They both make too much money off of the fans. The fans, IMHO, are truly the game. Without them, it wouldn't matter who played and who owed they team. It's the age old question about a tree in the woods falling. If someone hit a home run and no one was there to see it would it really matter?

I am not on either side. I just want to follow and root for my favorite team.  I am willing to invest my time and money towards that goal. I read this thread to get quick updates on the negotiations.I get that there is not much else to talk about but this constant back and forth about who deserves what is tiresome. I ignore it most of the time but, sometimes I just get frustrated and chime in with my two cents worth.   I will now go back to ignoring it. 

Agree. Im on the fans side and want to see games, but I also do not want advertisements on the uniforms and also want some shorter game times. 3:15 games are too long for me. I dont have the attention span to tune in that long. They should really make an effort to make the games last under 3 hours. 

[waroriole]

10 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

Which reminds me of the Chris Davis retirement/buyout. Did Boras know something could jeopardize Davis's salary so he jumped in front of it? That decision wont look too swift if the season starts June 15th.  

Yep there’s a lot of people on here who thought it might’ve been premature for the Orioles because of how the owners acted during the 2020 negotiations. 

[osfan83]

39 minutes ago, seak05 said:

But mediocre players aren't the team. The players aren't the product because of their names, the players are the product because they are the pinnacle of the talent pool. If you replace major league players, with players who are of a lesser talent level...people stop watching major league baseball. 

I can guarantee you though, if you replace the owners with other rich people...it doesn't impact the level of the product one is consuming. 

Some people around here are just upset that players get paid a lot of money, and are therefore totally ok with richer people getting paid even more. 

If the entire league was made up of AAAA players, but games were played quickly and competitively, we would still have a good product. 

If somehow I relocated to Japan, and learned to speak the language, I would pick a Japanese team to follow, and be just as passionate as I am for the Orioles. I would eventually learn the players and grow attached.

An entertaining, crisp, competitive league played at a decent professional level is all you need, regardless of the individual player names or owners involved. 

[Moshagge3]

2 hours ago, osfan83 said:

How about a series a 3 inning elimination games, and settle ties with a HR derby? 

Makes as much sense as anything being proposed right now.

[Moshagge3]

Competitive balance is a good thing and it's what players want. Players want to hit FA and have 30 different teams interested in their services, rather than three or four. But the players have seen that "competitive balance" translates to penalizing teams for spending in the form of a tax that goes into the owners' pockets and usually stays there. I can appreciate that the Yankees and the Brewers have very different revenue streams. However, the CBT on the Yankees' payroll isn't allowing the Brewers to catch up to the Yankees in spending. What it's doing is letting the Brewers get away with a $100 million payroll by saying "Well, obviously we aren't going to be in the same neighborhood as the Yankees."

[Bahama O's Fan]

Salary cap, salary floor. What are the issues with this, other than the owners don't want a floor and the players don't want a cap?