MLB Lockout Thread

[Big Al]

1 hour ago, forphase1 said:

Yeah, like I said I'm not sure I like outlawing the shift.  On the one hand, I certainly want to see more hits and baserunners and few things are more frustrating than seeing a completely empty left side of the infield and the batter still hits it right at someone on the right.  I can't say how many times I was yelling at a Chris Davis or whoever to just lay down a bunt to slap a weak grounder up the left/middle where no one could get to it.  I mainly lean on the side of demanding the hitters to adjust to the shift, but I think it's been made pretty clear over the past few years that hitters are not going to change their approach, even when they should.  So I'm really torn on the issue and see both sides of it.  

I agree. Basketball didn’t ban the full court press or football the blitz.  

Edited March 9, 2022 by Big Al
Edit

[forphase1]

1 minute ago, Big Al said:

Should basketball ban the full court press and football the nickel defense?

Maybe, if those are hurting the game.  All leagues have changed rules and altered the way the game is played to make it flow better or make it safer or to increase scoring or whatever.  Baseball isn't immune to similar pressures or potential changes.  Again, I'm not exactly 'pro' making it against the rules, but I do get the reasons behind it.  I'd much rather see hitters make defenses pay by putting the ball into play and hit 'em where they ain't!  But hitters have more or less refused to do so.  

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

To me it's stifling innovation.  I also enjoy when the shift fails in spectacular fashion because..baseball.

It's somewhat reminiscent to me of the NBA's attempts to outlaw zone defense.   The current rule is that a defensive player can't be in the lane area for more than 3 seconds without guarding a player.   It doesn't prevent a team from playing a zone but it makes it difficult.

[SteveA]

45 minutes ago, waroriole said:

 

The owners also want a 4th tier to the luxury tax.   RIght now there are 3 levels:  base, first surcharge, and second surcharge.   They want to add a higher, 3rd surcharge.   

Seems like they are trying to put a little more teeth in the faux cap in exchange for making some concessions in raising it.

[Moshagge3]

Let's never forget that all of this could have been hashed out in December if owners cared about starting the season on time.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, SteveA said:

The owners also want a 4th tier to the luxury tax.   RIght now there are 3 levels:  base, first surcharge, and second surcharge.   They want to add a higher, 3rd surcharge.   

Seems like they are trying to put a little more teeth in the faux cap in exchange for making some concessions in raising it.

The faux cap that is pretty much acting like a hard cap already?

Sure, go for it, no on will reach it anyway.

[SteveA]

Some more details on the MLB proposal that SEEMS to be generating some movement, or at the very least has them negotiating through the night:

1) Removal of the qualifying offer is tied to instituting an international draft

2) Draft lottery up to 6 picks (last MLB offer was 5)

3) Players can be optioned max 5 times in a season without being exposed to waivers (puts a bit of a damper on the Norfolk shuttle)

4) Small markets can pick in the draft lottery for 2 straight years before sliding to 10th pick

5) Large markets can only p;ick one year in lottery before going to 10th

5) TOp 2 rookie of the year vote getters can get a full year of service 

6) A team that brings up a player for Opening Day can net 3 draft picks over time, one pick per year, if that player "does well in voting".

All of the above from @EvanDrelich on Twitter, he credits Rosenthal with some of the info.

[Ripken]

Sounds like decent progress and movement towards the middle.  I like a lot of those proposals.  Surely it could have been done before now.  

I'm good with banning the shift.  I think some of the counter arguments fall short.  In football, you can't line up the 11 offensive players anywhere you want.  Basketball has backcourt and lane violations.  Hockey has off sides.  There are other player positioning penalties and restrictions, too.  Sure, they aren't exactly comparable, and they are mostly offensive limitations, but baseball is unique sport.  For all the "learn to hit the other way" stuff, that's easy to say but not so doable when the entire D is on your pull side and the pitch is 97 on the inner edge.

[WarehouseChatter]

For better or worse, I’m refreshing Twitter every few minutes.  Let’s PLEASE get this done!

[MGH5208]

54 minutes ago, Moshagge3 said:

Let's never forget that all of this could have been hashed out in December if owners cared about starting the season on time.

I hope the new deal gives the union enough money to buy phones in order to reach out to MLB sooner in the next negotiations.  

This was never getting settled in Dec whether it was MLB willing to miss part of the season or MLBPA not reaching out to use the "delay" as a PR ploy.

Its all in the past and I just hope they settle tonight and we have baseball by the weekend

[Moshagge3]

25 minutes ago, MGH5208 said:

I hope the new deal gives the union enough money to buy phones in order to reach out to MLB sooner in the next negotiations.  

This was never getting settled in Dec whether it was MLB willing to miss part of the season or MLBPA not reaching out to use the "delay" as a PR ploy.

Its all in the past and I just hope they settle tonight and we have baseball by the weekend

Not a lawyer but pretty sure instituting a lockout puts the onus on MLB to make a proposal, which they did not do for weeks.

[MGH5208]

49 minutes ago, Moshagge3 said:

Not a lawyer but pretty sure instituting a lockout puts the onus on MLB to make a proposal, which they did not do for weeks.

You may be right, I'm just saying that if a deal is so important to my side to get back on the field, I'm not waiting for the other sides "onus" before i reach out to start negotiations.

And it has been a much better narrative for the MLBPA to blame MLB for the delay in their PR ploy

I hate both sides, but it takes both of them to start negotiations.  MLBPAs complacency in waiting is as asinine as MLBs delay in making an offer

[Hallas]

I am torn about the shift.  I like baseball's ability to create its own dynamic meta without rule changes.  But I increasingly feel like physics and the intricacies of hitting mechanics are too great to overcome with regard to the shift.

[Daddy-O's]

A lot of sports have rules on positioning. Soccer, hockey, football, lacrosse all have positioning rules.  

[Sports Guy]

10 hours ago, waroriole said:

I hate regulating this kind of thing. I’ve held out hope for years that hitters would adapt and learn to go the other way or drop down bunts. But the game is boring with all the “innovation.”  It’s strikeouts galore and swinging for the fences. Maybe guys will stop trying to hit everything over the shift and we can get some sort of return to normalcy. 

Players have adjusted.  They are going over the shift.  
 

Indirectly, the shift is part of the 3 outcome issue, thus why banning it is more of a discussion than I thought at first.