MLB Lockout Thread

[MarCakes21]

39 minutes ago, Richmond Bird 9 said:

Who is fighting for the first and second year players? Who is fighting for the T J McFarlands of the world ??

 

Hard to put those guys as Players association reps because they are highly likely to not be part of the association in a year or two.

[spiritof66]

5 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

**** these mother****ers.

I'm not really upset at the lockout itself, this stuff happens from time to time no matter what the sport is.  I've said before I am not taking this personally as I know the owners and players don't care about the fans (me) past whatever we can cough up for a ticket and whatever officially licensed gear we decide to purchase.  It is a strictly transactional relationship.

The thing that bugs me about this situation is that they had oh, I dunno, all the time after the World Series was over through November and December and didn't do a damn thing.  Now it's some last minute shenanigans that makes them look worse.

I'll be back whenever they decide to stop playing patty cake with each other.  I'm not one of those fans that is looking to make my fandom into martyrdom, that's just silly.  I'm just pissed that they didn't start these negotiations the second they were able to.  Instead they stood across the room from each other like awkward middle schoolers at their first dance.  

Why couldn't they have started the process a year ago, during the 2020-21 off-season, or even during the 2021 season?  Some  of the non-productive wheel-spinning, name-calling, posturing, hard-headedness and Manfred deceptions we've been seeing since December might have been drained away months ago,  so that in the fall and winter things could have reached a point where the  player reps and owners could get involved. 

One of the impressive things about these sides is their apparent inability to learn anything from their past negotiations, so that we can expect a replay in five years. (I suppose things might be different if there's a new commissioner with a little better judgment and integrity and a whole lot less regard for himself, but that seems unlikely.) Depressing.  

I have to give credit to the owners and players for succeeding at one thing: lowering the expectations of many fans, including me. Six months ago, I was optimistic that in negotiating a CBA the parties would mutually recognize the competitive imbalance that infect at least two and probably three of MLB’s six divisions, and that they might agree on some small steps to reduce that imbalance. I was even hopeful that there would be discussion about what many of us perceive as problems with the current game, and perhaps some mechanism put in place for joint owner-union consideration of changes. I fully expected that things would be worked out well in advance of February spring training. I was pretty sure the players wouldn't strike, and I don't think I even considered that the owners might impose a lockout, threatening a complete 2022 season, after the damage to their billion-dollar assets from a pandemic-shortened season.

We’ve been reduced to hoping for, as a best case, a complete, or almost-complete, 2022 season with reduced spring training. If that happens, the negotiators will pat themselves, and maybe each other, on the back and declare themselves as paragons of negotiating skill and wisdom, and as saviors of the game, whose side has made enormous sacrifices to get the players on the field. They'll probably have the nerve to say they did it for us fans. Many of us will buy into that, and forget what stubborn, prideful, destructive jackasses they have been -- and still are. 

[Sports Guy]

 

[justD]

What I heard on MLB Network Radio is they met for an hour, broke out to their own camps for 3 hours, then got back together to meet for another hour before breaking up.  I'm encouraged.

[Bahama O's Fan]

17 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 

Good to hear. Finally some urgency 

[Just Regular]

If I am reading tea leaves correctly that MLB's step reported there brings lottery window into 4-8 teams range, suppose that ensures that the 4th worst record will have a shot at 1-1 in I guess 2023.

Here's Wikipedia on how the NBA narrows down the probabilities in a much bigger lottery:

1. 140 combinations, 14.0% chance of receiving the No. 1 pick
2. 140 combinations, 14.0% chance
3. 140 combinations, 14.0% chance
4. 125 combinations, 12.5% chance
5. 105 combinations, 10.5% chance
6. 90 combinations, 9.0% chance
7. 75 combinations, 7.5% chance
8. 60 combinations, 6.0% chance
9. 45 combinations, 4.5% chance
10. 30 combinations, 3.0% chance
11. 20 combinations, 2.0% chance
12. 15 combinations, 1.5% chance
13. 10 combinations, 1.0% chance
14. 5 combinations, 0.5% chance

[forphase1]

1 hour ago, justD said:

What I heard on MLB Network Radio is they met for an hour, broke out to their own camps for 3 hours, then got back together to meet for another hour before breaking up.  I'm encouraged.

I'm usually on the side of MLB in general, but they need to just seriously increase the amount going to the bonus.  Not sure I like the changes to the lottery really, but also not sure I care a great deal either way.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, justD said:

What I heard on MLB Network Radio is they met for an hour, broke out to their own camps for 3 hours, then got back together to meet for another hour before breaking up.  I'm encouraged.

Keep them locked in the same room.  Start to withhold food and water.  Whoever survives, wins.

[Sports Guy]

What is the point of adding 5M?  You have a number you are willing to go to.  Say what it is and stop this bs.  Players need to do the same.

[connja]

20 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

What is the point of adding 5M?  You have a number you are willing to go to.  Say what it is and stop this bs.  Players need to do the same.

What I hadn't understood previously is that the MLB offer which is now $20mm will be distributed to 30 players.  The players offer of $115mm or whatever it is is supposed to be divided by 150 players.  So there are 2 levers to pull on.  They should meet somewhere like  100 players to split and 60mm or something like that. 

[Frobby]

52 minutes ago, connja said:

What I hadn't understood previously is that the MLB offer which is now $20mm will be distributed to 30 players.  The players offer of $115mm or whatever it is is supposed to be divided by 150 players.  So there are 2 levers to pull on.  They should meet somewhere like  100 players to split and 60mm or something like that. 

I think 3 players per team is a good starting point.   Pre-Arb lasts three years so that’s basically one per team per Arb year.   

[wildcard]

The pre-arb bonus is where I think MLB is willing to give maybe 50-60m but they want to trade that off vs the luxury tax  and competitive balance from the players.  

When you think about where the money comes from that is only 2m per year into a pot each year if that is the way they come up with it.

[waroriole]

14 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

Why couldn't they have started the process a year ago, during the 2020-21 off-season, or even during the 2021 season?  Some  of the non-productive wheel-spinning, name-calling, posturing, hard-headedness and Manfred deceptions we've been seeing since December might have been drained away months ago,  so that in the fall and winter things could have reached a point where the  player reps and owners could get involved. 

One of the impressive things about these sides is their apparent inability to learn anything from their past negotiations, so that we can expect a replay in five years. (I suppose things might be different if there's a new commissioner with a little better judgment and integrity and a whole lot less regard for himself, but that seems unlikely.) Depressing.  

I have to give credit to the owners and players for succeeding at one thing: lowering the expectations of many fans, including me. Six months ago, I was optimistic that in negotiating a CBA the parties would mutually recognize the competitive imbalance that infect at least two and probably three of MLB’s six divisions, and that they might agree on some small steps to reduce that imbalance. I was even hopeful that there would be discussion about what many of us perceive as problems with the current game, and perhaps some mechanism put in place for joint owner-union consideration of changes. I fully expected that things would be worked out well in advance of February spring training. I was pretty sure the players wouldn't strike, and I don't think I even considered that the owners might impose a lockout, threatening a complete 2022 season, after the damage to their billion-dollar assets from a pandemic-shortened season.

We’ve been reduced to hoping for, as a best case, a complete, or almost-complete, 2022 season with reduced spring training. If that happens, the negotiators will pat themselves, and maybe each other, on the back and declare themselves as paragons of negotiating skill and wisdom, and as saviors of the game, whose side has made enormous sacrifices to get the players on the field. They'll probably have the nerve to say they did it for us fans. Many of us will buy into that, and forget what stubborn, prideful, destructive jackasses they have been -- and still are. 

Good post. It’s funny that you comment on the owners and players being completely unwilling to learn from precedent, but the next paragraph you thought there was going to be legitimate change to address the competitive imbalance. I think all of us fans are like Charlie Brown thinking we’re gonna kick the ball this time. 

[maybenxtyr]

I wish they would go away from the league minimum for young players and start actually doing arb every year. I would much rather a young star get paid over an older player that can't perform. 

[Sports Guy]

25 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

I wish they would go away from the league minimum for young players and start actually doing arb every year. I would much rather a young star get paid over an older player that can't perform. 

People keep saying this but what sport does this? 
 

All sports start the younger players off at less money.  So, just so some middling vets get don’t get paid as much, you want to totally change this?

Im all for these guys getting paid more.  Perhaps instead of making 1.5-2M in their first 3 years, they can make closer to 5M.  Something like that.  But I don’t feel the need to say we need to pay these pre arb guys 15-30M for those first 3 years.