MLB Lockout Thread

[RZNJ]

44 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Not that I follow NASCAR, but based on revenue alone, NASCAR was outranking MLB before covid days.

People hate all baseball commishs, more than the other sports. Doom and gloomers have been talking the demise of baseball since the free agent period started.

Can you provide evidence that NASCAR generates more revenue than MLB, or even hockey for that matter.

[waroriole]

12 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Can you provide evidence that NASCAR generates more revenue than MLB, or even hockey for that matter.

Yeah that doesn’t sound right at all about nascar. From what I found, MLB has the second most income generated in the world. 
 

https://www.sportsunfold.com/top-10-richest-sports-leagues-in-the-world-right-now/

[wildcard]

35 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

1. If no one in Italy knows who Mile Trout is, what's that got to do with baseball dying as a business in this country.

2. If much of the baseball revenue is based on TV contracts, the question should be, why do all of these networks invest so much in a dying game with unattractive demographics?

And lastly, if things are getting worse why do team values continue to skyrocket?

Why do you ask questions you already know the answers to?   

2.  Its a stable viewing audience that has money.  68m attendees in still 68m attendees.  And those people plus more watch baseball games.

3.  See #2.  Plus they keep raising ticket, concession etc prices.  

[Redskins Rick]

2 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Yeah that doesn’t sound right at all about nascar. From what I found, MLB has the second most income generated in the world. 
 

https://www.sportsunfold.com/top-10-richest-sports-leagues-in-the-world-right-now/

merchandize sales.

NFL has more TV/Cable deals.

Ticket revenue cant be compared either. As you dont have so many races in the race season.

There are more NFL teams, than NASCAR team.

But comparing income from the sales of team sponsored items, NASCAR sales were strong.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

merchandize sales.

NFL has more TV/Cable deals.

Ticket revenue cant be compared either. As you dont have so many races in the race season.

There are more NFL teams, than NASCAR team.

But comparing income from the sales of team sponsored items, NASCAR sales were strong.

You said NASCAR outranked MLB on revenue alone.  No caveats were included.  Nascar earns 660M from TV.  MLB earns 1.5B from the national contracts and that doesn't even include all of the local deals.  We realize it's one race per week verses 15 games every day.   But we weren't talking averages, we were talking total revenue. 

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

You said NASCAR outranked MLB on revenue alone.  No caveats were included.  Nascar earns 660M from TV.  MLB earns 1.5B from the national contracts and that doesn't even include all of the local deals.  We realize it's one race per week verses 15 games every day.   But we weren't talking averages, we were talking total revenue. 

Im sorry, was not trying mislead, just need to type my thoughts better.

You cant compare NASCAR tickets or TV money, I agree.

But, when comes to selling, team tee-shirts, jackets, hats, and other NASCAR memorabilia like collector cars, etc. There is a huge market, and they make a ton of their money off it.

Been trying to find an old article posted before COVID, that compared NASCAR with the other USA sports, and it was shocking at the amount, it was not better than the NFL.

[Sports Guy]

48 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

 

I have looked a few times (not in the past week or so) for reports, leaks, rumors, etc. of negotiations of some kind. Haven't seen a thing.

Is there some information to the contrary? Or are you just unable to believe that these people are so stupid and self-destructive and caught up in their own egos or manhood that they're doing absolutely nothing collaborative or constructive? Sadly and slowly, I have come to believe that. It's hard for me to imagine that anything is going on if, as appears to be the case, it hasn't been leaked or confided to some reporter, directly or directly.

 

 

All I’m saying is I think people are talking.  It may just be lawyers or someone like that.    But I don’t think everything is silent across the board for everyone.  I’m not saying anything substantial is happening or that the right people are talking, just that I refuse to believe that no one from either side is talking to the other one.

[Can_of_corn]

8 hours ago, wildcard said:

So two sides making a lot of money trying to out greed the other.   And the chance that they don't start the season on time because of that.   If this is the way it happens it will serve them right if fans don't show up at the parks and cut the cable bills or don't subscribe to their greed.

If you and I were in a business together and we sold it for 100M profit would you be OK with me taking 70M and letting you have 30M?  I mean 30M is a lot of money, you are just being greedy if you want more.

[LookinUp]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

All I’m saying is I think people are talking.  It may just be lawyers or someone like that.    But I don’t think everything is silent across the board for everyone.  I’m not saying anything substantial is happening or that the right people are talking, just that I refuse to believe that no one from either side is talking to the other one.

You could argue that a lack of news stories about one side or the other being unwilling to engage likely means there's decent engagement.

Of course, you'd be speculating, but I think it's also unfair to speculate that nothing's happening absent news reports saying that.

[SteveA]

8 hours ago, RZNJ said:

It seems like it's usually the owners who cave in first.

On longterm issues it always has been.   Because MLB playing careers are longer than in any other sport, even for the fringe guys.   How long has Matt Joyce been around for goodness sake?  So most players can miss a year's paycheck and be OK.    Unlike football where the average career is 3 years or so.

And while the owners ARE rich, they all have around a billion or so tied up in their franchise so that isn't a liquid asset.   And some of them leveraged debt to buy their teams.

So in general, the owners have caved first.

This time, though, the players are the ones who want significant change.   Salary floors, anti-tanking stuff, significant raises for younger players, etc.   I'll bet the owners would be thrilled with the status quo being renewed.  That's the opposite of the last big work stoppage in 1994, where the owners wanted changes and the players were happy for the status quo.   And the players pretty much won, and not much was changed, and the owners sacrificed a World Series for a deal they could have gotten without any stoppage, pretty much.   Court and political intervention and the failure of the replacement player plan played a big part there.

So it's a different setup this time around.  It's the players who want big changes.   And it's the players who can, for the most part, lose part or all of a year's salary to get the changes.   The owners will have to decide if it's worth losing another season, after the past two have been Covid-affected, to not give up some of what the players are asking for.

[SteveA]

7 hours ago, Philip said:

 

So raise the floor. Be more inclusive. Treat the guys like the elite talents that they are, and make no mistake, the worst player on the worst minor-league team in baseball is still an elite athlete, and should be paid a respectable amount of money.

The owners should definitely spend more, but the players in the players Association want the money for themselves, and they don’t need it. Instead they should expand membership so that the guys who do need it can get it.

Ryan Ripken, elite athlete!

[Just Regular]

On MLB and Nascar, one thing I heard on a podcast recently is that more on-uniform advertisements are an ownership revenue growth thing that has a decent chance of happening.   The podcaster guesstimated $7-8mm/year/team for Clubs via the channel, or about enough to fund a doubling of the minimum wage of a team about 50/50 between pre-arb guys and guys beyond the first rung of the ladder.

[Philip]

4 hours ago, Just Regular said:

On MLB and Nascar, one thing I heard on a podcast recently is that more on-uniform advertisements are an ownership revenue growth thing that has a decent chance of happening.   The podcaster guesstimated $7-8mm/year/team for Clubs via the channel, or about enough to fund a doubling of the minimum wage of a team about 50/50 between pre-arb guys and guys beyond the first rung of the ladder.

Advertising on uniforms is stupid. I’ve always thought that advertising on racing cars is the dumbest thing in the world, but having advertising on baseball uniforms? I think that would just be awful. I can’t think of another organization that is run as badly as baseball, with this many bad decisions being made one after the other

[connja]

9 minutes ago, Philip said:

Advertising on uniforms is stupid. I’ve always thought that advertising on racing cars is the dumbest thing in the world, but having advertising on baseball uniforms? I think that would just be awful. I can’t think of another organization that is run as badly as baseball, with his mini bad decisions being made one after the other

Redskins/WFT and whatever they will be after 2/2/22 is another organization that is run this badly.   As for the ads on uniforms - it's been there for a couple years already - see the Nike swoosh.

[wildcard]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

If you and I were in a business together and we sold it for 100M profit would you be OK with me taking 70M and letting you have 30M?  I mean 30M is a lot of money, you are just being greedy if you want more.

I would expect it.

If you put up the money for the business and I worked with you.

You take all the risk.  I have a guaranteed contract.    If I don't perform you still pay me my 161m.   If  I die in a accident you pay my family my contract.  If the industry  hits a down turn its your risk not mine.   I still get paid my contract.