Ortiz elected to HOF

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

Weren't you the same guy bemoaning how society is crap these days?  

Sure and it is.  But that has nothing to do with whether someone should be in the HOF or not.

 

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Sure and it is.  But that has nothing to do with whether someone should be in the HOF or not.

 

That's not what I was getting at, but ok.  

[Hallas]

Letting in Ortiz and leaving out Bonds and Clemens is just confusing to me.  Ortiz had a positive test too.  The PEDs are just a smoke screen for the fact that the writer's association just doesn't like Bonds or Clemens IMO.  I don't really agree with the witch hunt against supposed PED users, but at least be consistent about it.

[jarman86]

10 minutes ago, Hallas said:

Letting in Ortiz and leaving out Bonds and Clemens is just confusing to me.  Ortiz had a positive test too.  The PEDs are just a smoke screen for the fact that the writer's association just doesn't like Bonds or Clemens IMO.  I don't really agree with the witch hunt against supposed PED users, but at least be consistent about it.

To me, Ortiz popped positive for PED. PED is so vague under the testing especially at the time. I mean, Crush's ADD meds were PED couple years back. That was a a once thing that was done under the condition it would remain anonymous among the people who participated in this testing and was not supposed to carry a penalty etc...well surprise it didn't remain anonymous. He has never popped positive nor been accused of any sort of illegal behavior against MLB drug testing policy. No players have accused him, nothing. I mean on that list was HOFers Pedro Martinez, Roberto Alomar, Ivan Rodriguez, next year shoe-in allegedly Adrian Beltre, Todd Helton who appears to be on a steady incline to HOF nomination, I've heard Francisco Rodriguez could be a HOFer.

Clemens and Bonds did PEDs, lied about PEDs, got charged in the federal justice system for lying to Feds, Congress, etc..., Bonds was like the face of BALCO, and Vets/HOFers/writers/whoever just probably didn't appreciate the whole like cheating and lying and criminal underlyings of the whole situation. If they were forthright and been like yeah you caught me, would it have changed matters? Probably not, but maybe considering everyone was basically doing something at that time, its no secret. But when I think of PED use during that era, those two are the faces I think of, followed by McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro and ARod. If it was just PEDs and steroids, none of the aforementioned HOFers and potential future HOFers on that list would have been inducted or possibly inducted. That's the difference I see. 

 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, jarman86 said:

To me, Ortiz popped positive for PED. PED is so vague under the testing especially at the time. I mean, Crush's ADD meds were PED couple years back. That was a a once thing that was done under the condition it would remain anonymous among the people who participated in this testing and was not supposed to carry a penalty etc...well surprise it didn't remain anonymous. He has never popped positive nor been accused of any sort of illegal behavior against MLB drug testing policy. No players have accused him, nothing. I mean on that list was HOFers Pedro Martinez, Roberto Alomar, Ivan Rodriguez, next year shoe-in allegedly Adrian Beltre, Todd Helton who appears to be on a steady incline to HOF nomination, I've heard Francisco Rodriguez could be a HOFer.

Clemens and Bonds did PEDs, lied about PEDs, got charged in the federal justice system for lying to Feds, Congress, etc..., Bonds was like the face of BALCO, and Vets/HOFers/writers/whoever just probably didn't appreciate the whole like cheating and lying and criminal underlyings of the whole situation. If they were forthright and been like yeah you caught me, would it have changed matters? Probably not, but maybe considering everyone was basically doing something at that time, its no secret. But when I think of PED use during that era, those two are the faces I think of, followed by McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro and ARod. If it was just PEDs and steroids, none of the aforementioned HOFers and potential future HOFers on that list would have been inducted or possibly inducted. That's the difference I see. 

 

Eh.

Ortiz has stated that at one point in time he had been tested as much as any player in the league.

If that is true that indicates that he at some point failed a drug test and was in the elevated testing program.

First positive test for an amphetamine isn't released to the public.

As is often the case with PEDs in baseball, it's about impossible to prove a negative.

[Sanfran327]

I don't know enough about the HOF and who really has any influence over it - if anyone (I know the BBWAA votes and all of that baloney) - but it makes me wonder if someone can do the right thing here (at least in my opinion) and override the stupidity that we just witnessed. 

I'm somewhat in disbelief that Bonds and Clemens will never be in the Hall, so I guess I'm waiting to see who is going to do something about this. 

I'm probably dead wrong, but I just have this feeling that we haven't heard the last of this somehow.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, Sanfran327 said:

I don't know enough about the HOF and who really has any influence over it - if anyone (I know the BBWAA votes and all of that baloney) - but it makes me wonder if someone can do the right thing here (at least in my opinion) and override the stupidity that we just witnessed. 

I'm somewhat in disbelief that Bonds and Clemens will never be in the Hall, so I guess I'm waiting to see who is going to do something about this. 

I'm probably dead wrong, but I just have this feeling that we haven't heard the last of this somehow.

Of course we haven't.  There is still the various veteran committees.  They could get in as early as 2023.

Quote

Today's Game: December of 2022 for inclusion in the Class of 2023

 

[Sanfran327]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Of course we haven't.  There is still the various veteran committees.  They could get in as early as 2023.

 

Is that the same prestige as (for lack of a more informed word) a traditional election?

[Hallas]

2 hours ago, jarman86 said:

To me, Ortiz popped positive for PED. PED is so vague under the testing especially at the time. I mean, Crush's ADD meds were PED couple years back. That was a a once thing that was done under the condition it would remain anonymous among the people who participated in this testing and was not supposed to carry a penalty etc...well surprise it didn't remain anonymous. He has never popped positive nor been accused of any sort of illegal behavior against MLB drug testing policy. No players have accused him, nothing. I mean on that list was HOFers Pedro Martinez, Roberto Alomar, Ivan Rodriguez, next year shoe-in allegedly Adrian Beltre, Todd Helton who appears to be on a steady incline to HOF nomination, I've heard Francisco Rodriguez could be a HOFer.

Clemens and Bonds did PEDs, lied about PEDs, got charged in the federal justice system for lying to Feds, Congress, etc..., Bonds was like the face of BALCO, and Vets/HOFers/writers/whoever just probably didn't appreciate the whole like cheating and lying and criminal underlyings of the whole situation. If they were forthright and been like yeah you caught me, would it have changed matters? Probably not, but maybe considering everyone was basically doing something at that time, its no secret. But when I think of PED use during that era, those two are the faces I think of, followed by McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro and ARod. If it was just PEDs and steroids, none of the aforementioned HOFers and potential future HOFers on that list would have been inducted or possibly inducted. That's the difference I see. 

 

With Crush he got suspended specifically for adderall, as he received a 25 game suspension instead of an 80 game suspension that is handed down for first time offenders that test positive for non-stimulant PEDs.

 

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Sanfran327 said:

Is that the same prestige as (for lack of a more informed word) a traditional election?

It's the Hall of Fame.

You're in.

Baines still gets to add HoF to his signatures.

I guess you'd have to ask the players if they think it's the same.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Hallas said:

With Crush he got suspended specifically for adderall, as he received a 25 game suspension instead of an 80 game suspension that is handed down for first time offenders that test positive for non-stimulant PEDs.

 

And it was his second positive test.

[jarman86]

What corn said. Bonds and Clemens can be eligible for HOF until end of time. I assume there may be some more prestige in getting in the first 10 times, but HOF is HOF. I think what really matters to guys is getting in before they die. 

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, you obviously aren’t reading about Ortiz.  Many people feel the reason he got in vs a guy like Bonds (ie what put him over the top) is his persona that he has shown after the game, on TV, etc…

And it’s fine you don’t think the system is broke..many disagree with you including many of the known and outspoken members of the BBWAA.  

Apparently not enough of them.    But, judging from the voting, a majority.   

I really do get sick of having this argument every year, regardless of which side anyone is on.  I’ll be glad when all the steroid era guys are past their eligibility period so we can go back to just arguing the merits of the player.  (Though I’m sure even now players are cheating the system somehow.)
 

[Hallas]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Apparently not enough of them.    But, judging from the voting, a majority.   

I really do get sick of having this argument every year, regardless of which side anyone is on.  I’ll be glad when all the steroid era guys are past their eligibility period so we can go back to just arguing the merits of the player.  (Though I’m sure even now players are cheating the system somehow.)
 

Maybe Altuve should be banned from the HOF because he had his team videographer relay signs to him.

[Can_of_corn]

What I would love would be if a player that is in the HoF, used steroids and was never caught had the guts to come out and admit it.

I used, I'm in the Hall, I'm not the only one, you all need to get over it.