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O's Ink Izturis


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The only apt compairson to be made here is that the signing of Izturis is like buying a Lotto scratch-off that has already been shown not to be a winner…

That's simply not true. Did you ignore Baltimoron's post about wins/value that I cited? It's a two-year contract! That's it. It's low-risk. It's low-cost. It does not foreclose the search for a long-term option.

Your position on this makes no sense. Izturis and Hu are not fungible - regardless of whether Hu is available - because Hu can't be relied on NOW. Even if we traded for him, we'd need to purchase insurance.

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For all we know, MacPhail explored the possibility of getting Hu or another major league-ready prospect and concluded the price we'd have to pay wasn't worth it.

I'm not sweating this one. MacPhail and Trembley both wanted an excellent defensive SS, and they got one. On to bigger issues.

Best post in this thread.

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To be fair - you're a perfectionist. And that's a good thing. It's just hard to know what factors led to making a decision at a given moment.

It has been obvious from the beginning that we wanted Izturis and that he was our top target...That doesn't mean we didn't look into a young SS but it doesn't mean we did either.

All we can really comment on is what has been reported. And from what has been reported, the one young SS they went after was Todd Frazier...So, we know they at least tried for him.

Stoner is right about Hu though...He is becoming redundant with the Dodgers.

Right now, we still need a back up SS on this team. Maybe Hu will still be on the radar. We can trade for him and let him play with Izturis and maybe he gets a chance and takes the spot away from him.

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It has been obvious from the beginning that we wanted Izturis and that he was our top target...That doesn't mean we didn't look into a young SS but it doesn't mean we did either.

All we can really comment on is what has been reported. And from what has been reported, the one young SS they went after was Todd Frazier...So, we know they at least tried for him.

Stoner is right about Hu though...He is becoming redundant with the Dodgers.

Right now, we still need a back up SS on this team. Maybe Hu will still be on the radar. We can trade for him and let him play with Izturis and maybe he gets a chance and takes the spot away from him.

This is key. I think it a better policy to buy your low-risk answer early, then buy your high-risk/higher-reward option after the price crashes due to redundancy.

Now, they may not look at Hu. They SHOULD be looking at someone, though (I'm not going to fault them for shying away from Hu, but the more his price drops, the more attractive his risk is.)

If we make no moves to pull in a long-term option, then I'll be disappointed. You heard it here first.

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Is Furcal signed? The answer to that is no… since he is not signed… and the Dodgers continue to pursue him… would it not be logical to believe that LA is waiting to see what happens there, before they decide on making Hu available?

This might very well be true, the point is that you have no way of knowing for certain. Just like you have no way of knowing for certain whether or not Andy MacPhail asked about Hu or any other young SS throughout the league.

Unlike you, I choose not to bash and condemn AM because of unsubstantiated thoughts floating around in my head.

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This is key. I think it a better policy to buy your low-risk answer early, then buy your high-risk/higher-reward option after the price crashes due to redundancy.

Now, they may not look at Hu. They SHOULD be looking at someone, though (I'm not going to fault them for shying away from Hu, but the more his price drops, the more attractive his risk is.)

If we make no moves to pull in a long-term option, then I'll be disappointed. You heard it here first.

This is the whole key and it is what Crstoner is referring too...basically, he is saying that with izturis inked, that he doesn't think we will look for a long term option...I tend to agree with that.

I think the only way a long term option is obtained is if we decide we want to deal BRob or some kind of combo of Scott, Huff and Sherrill.

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This might very well be true, the point is that you have no way of knowing for certain. Just like you have no way of knowing for certain whether or not Andy MacPhail asked about Hu or any other young SS throughout the league.

Unlike you, I choose not to bash and condemn AM because of unsubstantiated thoughts floating around in my head.

Is Chris supposed to care about this?

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Someone is upset that we acquired a young, cheap, good glove, mediocre hitting former All-Star starting SS for the next two years to fill a glaring hole, instead of looking into trading for a 25-year-old mediocre hitting, mediocre fielding "prospect" from the Dodgers with less than 150 ML at bats?

Really?

I mean I understand Hu's potential, but we need a starting SS for 2009. You're going to complain because you think we didn't pursue a guy with limited potential and just 145 ML at bats?

And that's not even factoring in that we would first have to wait for Furcal to sign, then hope he signs with LA, then hope LA is shopping Hu and not asking for too much, then hoping we have compatible wants/needs with the Dodgers, then hoping that Hu's vision problems are over, then hoping that Hu is ready to start in 2009....

I mean, really?

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What do you care? It's hard to take someone seriously when it's clear they have an agenda against AM. I'll await your next snappy one liner.

Its some agenda against AM...What is really hard to take seriously is someone who has the inability to get involved in an intelligent conversation and instead throw a bunch of bs into it and put words into people's mouths..Of course, that is how you roll and is typical of the way you post, so whatever.

That being said, what Chris is saying is 100% right..Hu is a SS...If they sign a SS to a long term deal, it stands to reason that Hu's availablity is more likely to be there. And because of that, waiting to see what happens with that isn't the worst idea.

Now, as I said, we can still get Hu and maybe we will...Who knows at this point...But what Chris is saying is correct.

Now, how about you actually try to debate stuff and inject what small shred of baseball intelligence you have into the conversation instead of crying about the little stuff.

(god, why did i decide to read your posts when I have you on ignore? that was a really dumb decision on my part)

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By every metric available, Izturis is a good-to-very-good defensive shortstop, with decent contact skills and some speed.

He's an everyday SS for a year, and something like a UTI for a year, at most.

I don't think any of us are assuming anything, however.

I suspect every metric available would support my characterization of Izturis' play for the Cubs.

Hey don't get me wrong. I hope he does well for you guys. But like you said, I wouldn't immediately assume there's an upgrade in store -- he could suck for you guys like he did for the Cubs.

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I suspect every metric available would support my characterization of Izturis' play for the Cubs.

Hey don't get me wrong. I hope he does well for you guys. But like you said, I wouldn't immediately assume there's an upgrade in store -- he could suck for you guys like he did for the Cubs.

But I think there is a good chance that OCab, Furcal and Renteria would suck too(over the life of their respective contracts) and they would have cost a lot more money.

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Signing Izturis does not preclude us from going after a long-term solution for SS such as Hu or whoever. The fact of the matter was, we did not have a ML ready SS of any kind on our roster Anywhere!!!!!! Now we do, and we are no longer as desperate to acquire one as we were two days ago.

If there is one thing we have learned from MacPhail thus far, he does not like dealing from a position of weakness. He makes sure that's what the other GM's are doing!!(i.e. Bedard)

Well said. While it does likely preclude the O's from getting an expensive veteran (which might be a good thing), it doesn't really affect getting a long-term answer, and it does positively affect bargaining power.

Remember, there's a decent chance that Roberts will be traded, and a lot of good young SS's are moved to 2B in the majors while they get their feet wet - like Azdrubal Cabrera. The O's could do the same with a DeJesus or Hu.

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