Nobody Can Convince Me That the Orioles Infield is not Dramatically Better..

[BaltimoreTerp]

Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha. Your post is so funny yet spot on true. How is playing someone who is bad at their position compared to what is out there now going to showcase their value?Cmon, people do a little thinking here. I too have noticed that Roberts also seems to have brought his defense to a higher level by playing with a better defensive shortstop. It effects the entire infield in a positive manner and is as obvious as night and day the difference.

Show a statistic, ANY statistic, that proves Tejada is a "below-average" shortstop.

Until you do, any post you make on the subject will be responded to by that challenge.

Prove everybody wrong, instead of whining about people arguing with you. We've made our point with facts. You've just acted like your opinion is the only fact you need.

[El Gordo]

Given the same 8 other players, it is an inarguable fact that the team is better with Tejada at SS than with Hernandez at SS. There is absolutely no arguing this.

Also, with the same 7 other position players, I'd still say its a landslide to have Tejada at SS and Huff/Gibbons at DH than Hernandez at SS and Tejada at DH. Unless Hernandez can play the infield well enough to cover both the SS and 3B postions at a gold glove level enabling us to have 4 outfielders, theres no way he his glove can make up the gaping difference between his and Miggy's bat.

If you can't be convinced otherwise, then you are just being stubborn and closeminded, not to mention completely wrong.

I don' think I agree with you. Huff and Gibbons are defensive liabilities and hardly better offensively than Hernandez. If you were to play Mora in LF you would be gaining about 80 points in OPS over Payton. If you played Tejada at 3B you would be gaining 100 points in OPS over Mora. So if you played Hernandez you would be losing that 180 points in OPS at SS but you would be improving the defense a good deal IMO.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Tejada can play every day just not at shortstop where he reduces the defense on the team below what it should be. Certainly is ridiculous not to do it.

So Hernandez's minus total of runs between his bat and defense is better then Tejada's positive total, even when you are taking another bat out of the lineup (and even Gibbons is a better option offensively then Hernandez).

When the goal of the game is to score more then the opponent, why would you be willing to give up those runs?

[NoVaO]

Pitching w/ Tejada at SS:

April - 130 ER, 136 R, 4.33 ERA

May - 103 ER, 109 R, 3.71 ERA

June - 90 ER, 94 R, 5.29 ERA

Pitching with Hernandez/Fahey/Gomez/Bynum at SS

June - 35 ER, 37 R, 3.89 ERA

July - 73 ER, 74 R, 3.95 ERA

The difference between Tejada's June and everything else?

26 innings of Trachsel of walking batters on base, then giving up long home runs - 26 R, 26 ER

5 innings of crappy Danys Baez - 5 R, 5 ER

10 innings of the bad Chris Ray walking batters and giving up home runs - 10 R, 10 ER

8 innings of John Parrish walking batters and giving up long doubles and a home run - 10 R, 10 ER

What helped in July - The team has 30 less walks so far in July and they are strking out close to 1.5 batters more in July.

Despite Tejada being only an average fielder, you can see the minimal impact it has had in terms of team runs and earned runs and pitching performance. Anybody can spin these numbers any way you want but the impact on the team's pitching is minimal.

Now take Hernandez, who is a singles hitter who honestly hits nothing hard. His grounders and line drives are soft and his fly balls are shallow. His OPS is .695 and this is with him looking "good' at the plate. The difference between the two on offense is much more dramatic than their differences on defense.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Pitching w/ Tejada at SS:

April - 130 ER, 136 R, 4.33 ERA

May - 103 ER, 109 R, 3.71 ERA

June - 90 ER, 94 R, 5.29 ERA

Pitching with Hernandez/Fahey/Gomez/Bynum at SS

June - 35 ER, 37 R, 3.89 ERA

July - 73 ER, 74 R, 3.95 ERA

The difference between Tejada's June and everything else?

26 innings of Trachsel of walking batters on base, then giving up long home runs - 26 R, 26 ER

5 innings of crappy Danys Baez - 5 R, 5 ER

10 innings of the bad Chris Ray walking batters and giving up home runs - 10 R, 10 ER

8 innings of John Parrish walking batters and giving up long doubles and a home run - 10 R, 10 ER

What helped in July - The team has 30 less walks so far in July and they are strking out close to 1.5 batters more in July.

Despite Tejada being only an average fielder, you can see the minimal impact it has had in terms of team runs and earned runs and pitching performance. Anybody can spin these numbers any way you want but the impact on the team's pitching is minimal.

Now take Hernandez, who is a singles hitter who honestly hits nothing hard. His grounders and line drives are soft and his fly balls are shallow. His OPS is .695 and this is with him looking "good' at the plate. The difference between the two on offense is much more dramatic than their differences on defense.

But he LOOKS good!

[section34]

Miggy has been slightly above average this year and for his career.

Hernandez is better than him defensively.

So, yes the OF defense is better with Hernandez in there but its not bad when Miggy is in there.

Above avg by what standard?! Dude, Miggy is a below avg SS in the eyes of anyone who knows baseball. I don't care what any stat says, Miggy can't get to balls a good SS can. Getting to baseballs is a huge part of being a SS. But...Miggy is excellent if he can get to the ball which is what a 3rd baseman is for.

[SilentJames]

We keep talking about Tejada's "mistakes"

Miguel had 6 errors going into his DL stint.

Jeter has 13 today.

Michael Young - 11

Miggy's "mental errors" The failure to cover second on a couple times. Watching games more closely this year around baseball I have seen that same thing happen to at least three other teams. Does that excuse it? No. What does it make him - EFFING HUMAN!

I just do not get the fact that everyone wants to pile on this guy over and over again and make him out into something he is not.

Is he a baseball God? NO, HELL no. Is he one of the better shotstops in the game, yes - HELL yes.

[section34]

We keep talking about Tejada's "mistakes"

Miguel had 6 errors going into his DL stint.

Jeter has 13 today.

Michael Young - 11

Miggy's "mental errors" The failure to cover second on a couple times. Watching games more closely this year around baseball I have seen that same thing happen to at least three other teams. Does that excuse it? No. What does it make him - EFFING HUMAN!

I just do not get the fact that everyone wants to pile on this guy over and over again and make him out into something he is not.

Is he a baseball God? NO, HELL no. Is he one of the better shotstops in the game, yes - HELL yes.

Its his range that sux...

He'd be a great 3rd baseman period.

[SilentJames]

Above avg by what standard?! Dude, Miggy is a below avg SS in the eyes of anyone who knows baseball. I don't care what any stat says, Miggy can't get to balls a good SS can. Getting to baseballs is a huge part of being a SS. But...Miggy is excellent if he can get to the ball which is what a 3rd baseman is for.

ARE YOU CRAZY!?

The fact that Miggy CAN get to balls is the problem. He gets his glove on balls and is near balls that another SS, say Derek Jeter would just let go by.

Zone Rating

Jeter - .764

Young - .790

Tejada - .858

So people that actually get paid to compile the numbers to see who gets to balls better say that Miguel Tejada gets to more balls than Jeter and Young.

Not too mention the fact that Miggy has a better fielding percentage than both of those guys.

But don't mind the science.

[SilentJames]

Its his range that sux...

He'd be a great 3rd baseman period.

Wrong again. See ZR stats.

[section34]

Wrong again. See ZR stats.

I played SS...and watch baseball. Miggy is excellent if he gets to balls. He doesn't get to balls like good SS's do.

No I'm not crazy...therefore, I know baseball much better than you.

Have you ever played SS?

[SilentJames]

I played SS...and watch baseball. Miggy is excellent if he gets to balls. He doesn't get to balls like good SS's do.

No I'm not crazy...therefore, I know baseball much better than you.

Have you ever played SS?

yes in fact I have.

But see that is where you are wrong. Because, you are letting your personal feelings get in the way of things. ZR is "Basically, ZR is the percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive ‘zone’,"

Therefore, if Miguel has a higher zone rating then he gets to more balls than your average shortstop.

You keep saying he doesn't get to balls. Well the numbers and science say something entirely different. He gets to more balls than Jeter or Mike Young.

In fact, right now, there is only one SS in the AL that has a higher ZR than Tejada - Bobby Crosby

[Zaimoku]

Zone Rating

Jeter - .764

Young - .790

Tejada - .858

But don't mind the science.

Except it's not science.

I know of an instance where three sabremagicians or whatever went to a game and plotted the zone on every fair ball.

They compared notes on the game. There was disagreement into which zone the ball was hit among the 3 more than 30% of the time.

That makes it guesswork.

[SilentJames]

Except it's not science.

I know of an instance where three sabremagicians or whatever went to a game and plotted the zone on overy fair ball.

They compared notes on the game. There was disagreement into which zone the ball was hit among the 3 more than 30% of the time.

That makes it guesswork.

Its more scientific than "I say so, therefore it is."

These are pretty widely accepted number right here, I mean these are official MLB stats.

You're saying that the MLB will give Miggy a break?

Find me a stat that puts Miguel in the bottom half of fielding in the AL and I will shut up. Because every number on him says he is near the top.

[Zaimoku]

These are pretty widely accepted number right here, I mean these are official MLB stats.

So are wins and losses for the pitcher of record.