Can't believe the Orioles are going to Arbitration with Means and Mancini

[Tony-OH]

 I call them as I see them and while I support Elias and how he's rebuilding this franchise so far, the fact that the Orioles are going to Arbitration with their homegrown top starter (Means) and All-star (Mancini) over a combined $1.1 million difference is embarrasing.

If the number are right, Means wants $3.1 and the Orioles offered $2.7. Really, a $400 K difference for a guy who threw a no-hitter last year? 

As for Mancini, it's a little more tricky because honestly, he's more valuable to the Orioles because of who he is rather than what he brings to the lineup at this point. Saying that, there's what, a 700K difference? The Orioles could not meet him halfway on that? 

For a team with the lowest payroll in baseball, it's embarrassing to be going to arbitration with your two All-star over $1.1 million. 

This is BS. Sometimes it's not always about winning and getting guys for as cheap as you can. I really hope both players win their cases because it's ridiculous that the Orioles could not get this done without arbitration.

[OriolesMagic83]

I mean the years before free agency are called arbitration years.  I can't see the reason for trying to save money on Means.  The man is the O's only dependable starter.   Mancini is the team's good luck charm, but is a defensively limited DH/1B w/ a bat barely above average worth $8 million.  $8 million may not be much in MLB, but it's more than most working people will earn in a lifetime.  I would rather see that $8 million put towards extending a young O's player,

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

 I call them as I see them and while I support Elias and how he's rebuilding this franchise so far, the fact that the Orioles are going to Arbitration with their homegrown top starter (Means) and All-star (Mancini) over a combined $1.1 million difference is embarrasing.

If the number are right, Means wants $3.1 and the Orioles offered $2.7. Really, a $400 K difference for a guy who threw a no-hitter last year? 

As for Mancini, it's a little more tricky because honestly, he's more valuable to the Orioles because of who he is rather than what he brings to the lineup at this point. Saying that, there's what, a 700K difference? The Orioles could not meet him halfway on that? 

For a team with the lowest payroll in baseball, it's embarrassing to be going to arbitration with your two All-star over $1.1 million. 

This is BS. Sometimes it's not always about winning and getting guys for as cheap as you can. I really hope both players win their cases because it's ridiculous that the Orioles could not get this done without arbitration.

That is assuming that Mancini is interested in settling at the halfway point.

We don't know that he is.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, OriolesMagic83 said:

I mean the years before free agency are called arbitration years.  I can't see the reason for trying to save money on Means.  The man is the O's only dependable starter.   Mancini is the team's good luck charm, but is a defensively limited DH/1B w/ a bat barely above average worth $8 million.  $8 million may not be much in MLB, but it's more than most working people will earn in a lifetime.  I would rather see that $8 million put towards extending a young O's player,

Arbitration is additive.  If he gets another 300K this year that higher number is going to carry forward for his future arbitration sessions. 

[Sports Guy]

That 400k could mean millions down the road.

That said, as we have discussed in the other thread, the optics of this are terrible.  They aren’t wrong with their stances in terms of pure baseball/payroll matters but it still looks bad.

[Tony-OH]

7 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I mean the years before free agency are called arbitration years.  I can't see the reason for trying to save money on Means.  The man is the O's only dependable starter.   Mancini is the team's good luck charm, but is a defensively limited DH/1B w/ a bat barely above average worth $8 million.  $8 million may not be much in MLB, but it's more than most working people will earn in a lifetime.  I would rather see that $8 million put towards extending a young O's player,

Means did not get a large bonus and been worth much more. I think they would have gotten him at $3 million but honestly, give him the damn $3.1 million.

Mancini really should have been non-tendered but due to who he is and his status, he got a contract. I'm fairly certain they could and should have made an agreement with Mancini. Either way, the Orioles look way cheap battling to what amounts chump change in MLB.

$8 million is not going to be used to extend a young player anyways. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

That 400k could mean millions down the road.

That said, as we have discussed in the other thread, the optics of this are terrible.  They aren’t wrong with their stances in terms of pure baseball/payroll matters but it still looks bad.

Seriously?

The floor is so low with the Orioles that they won't take a hit on fan perception over this.  Of course they are doing this, it would be noteworthy if they aren't.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Seriously?

The floor is so low with the Orioles that they won't take a hit on fan perception over this.  Of course they are doing this, it would be noteworthy if they aren't.

They are definitely getting blasted for this on local blogs, social media, etc…

[spiritof66]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Means did not get a large bonus and been worth much more. I think they would have gotten him at $3 million but honestly, give him the damn $3.1 million.

Mancini really should have been non-tendered but due to who he is and his status, he got a contract. I'm fairly certain they could and should have made an agreement with Mancini. Either way, the Orioles look way cheap battling to what amounts chump change in MLB.

$8 million is not going to be used to extend a young player anyways. 

Agreed. If not paid to Mancini, that $8 million, less the minimum paid to a promoted rookie or a reject from another team who takes Mancini's spot, would go into the ABF (Angelos Betterment Fund). 

And while $8 million for Mancini will probably not turn out to be a bargain, isn't it possible that Mancini will be almost as valuable as Jordan Lyles, who may get $8 million for a season's work when you include the team's $1 million buy-out?

[Aristotelian]

For what it's worth several teams out there failed to come to terms with more players than the O's. Doesn't seem like the O's are far outside the norm here, and we have a pretty stellar track record of arbitration coming in lower than the player ask. 

The Braves did not agree with five players, including going to arbitration with Max Fried over a difference of $150k! 

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/2322505

 

[wildcard]

I don't care what Mancini and Means make.  I don't care if one or the other wins or they meet in the middle. Its a lot of money either way.  I am a little surprised that Mancini is fighting with the front office and the owner.   They supported him throughout his cancer.  Paid him 4.75m in 2020 and pay him 4.75m in 2021 after receiving no production from him in 2020.

I am surprised that he is not showing them the courtesy they showed him.

[maybenxtyr]

9 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't care what Mancini and Means make.  I don't care if one or the other wins or they meet in the middle. Its a lot of money either way.  I am a little surprised that Mancini is fighting with the front office and the owner.   They supported him throughout his cancer.  Paid him 4.75m in 2020 and pay him 4.75m in 2021 after receiving no production from him in 2020.

I am surprised that he is not showing them the courtesy they showed him.

Agent. I'm not implying that Mancini couldn't override him, but that's why these guy's have agents. Get the most money possible.

[spiritof66]

Just curious whether anyone has insight on this.

The conventional wisdom used to be that going through the arbitration process created a risk of harming the relationship between the club and the player because the club's task in the arbitration presentation and hearing is to show why the player has a lower value than he and his agent think he has. Some players were thought to be, and I think in a few cases said they were, bothered by listening to the team's stress their weaknesses after digging deeply into the statistics.

I don't think I've seen that concern mentioned in recent years. Is it still there, or has the arbitration process become so familiar and routinized that players have learned to expect  and accept their club's critiques, and don't take it personally?

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't care what Mancini and Means make.  I don't care if one or the other wins or they meet in the middle. Its a lot of money either way.  I am a little surprised that Mancini is fighting with the front office and the owner.   They supported him throughout his cancer.  Paid him 4.75m in 2020 and pay him 4.75m in 2021 after receiving no production from him in 2020.

I am surprised that he is not showing them the courtesy they showed him.

They didn't pay him 4.75M in 2020.

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

Agent. I'm not implying that Mancini couldn't override him, but that's why these guy's have agents. Get the most money possible.

The agent is Mancini's employee.  No this in on Mancini.   He is the decision maker.