Raise your hand if you think Watkins was a better choice than Bradish?

[milbest77]

Dudes and dudettes, I have believed from the start that Elias is here to slash payroll and nothing else. They can put out all the PR stuff they want, but they don’t fool me. I am not looking for when they will be competitive again, but rather when the team will go up for sale and who will be the potential buyers. 

[Frobby]

52 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Everyone wants the young players to get a chance.  There isn’t one Orioles fan that differs in that opinion.

The difference was that most were saying to wait another year before adding to the team.  That we aren’t ready to spend yet.  Blah blah blah.

So this is what you get when you have that attitude. Instead of real options in critical situations, you get Chris Owings.  Instead of everyone getting pushed back a spot because you acquired a real pitcher, you get Watkins.  
 

You asked for it and now you are getting it.

I think this is a totally fair comment.   

[Moose Milligan]

10 minutes ago, milbest77 said:

Dudes and dudettes, I have believed from the start that Elias is here to slash payroll and nothing else. They can put out all the PR stuff they want, but they don’t fool me. I am not looking for when they will be competitive again, but rather when the team will go up for sale and who will be the potential buyers. 

Promoting Bradish over Watkins has nothing to do with payroll.  It's just dumb.  

[Moshagge3]

56 minutes ago, milbest77 said:

Dudes and dudettes, I have believed from the start that Elias is here to slash payroll and nothing else. They can put out all the PR stuff they want, but they don’t fool me. I am not looking for when they will be competitive again, but rather when the team will go up for sale and who will be the potential buyers. 

Why would Elias take the job under those conditions? Why would he want to waste his talents doing this year after year? And if he doesn't want to be here long term, how would failing on a rebuild make him hirable anywhere else? I mean, call him incompetent if you want, but it doesn't make sense to say that he has no end goal in mind.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Moshagge3 said:

Why would Elias take the job under those conditions? Why would he want to waste his talents doing this year after year? And if he doesn't want to be here long term, how would failing on a rebuild make him hirable anywhere else? I mean, call him incompetent if you want, but it doesn't make sense to say that he has no end goal in mind.

It's a MLB VP position.

It's an end of career path level get.

[Tony-OH]

12 hours ago, Ripken said:

Relax, man.  Bradish will be here by 2025.

Hell, that may be the first year they let Baumler pitch in a real game.

[Tony-OH]

12 hours ago, UMDTerrapins said:

I just added a few thoughts in the Minor League forum. Bradish is ready. He's not going to learn anything at AAA, and we're not going to learn anything either. I think he's going to have some struggles with the transition, but it's time to start that process with him. 

I agree. I still have some questions whether Bradish can stay a starter or will be better in a relief role, but we need to find that out at the major league level.

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Bradish isn’t the type of prospect you need to worry about playing the service time game with.  

This ^^^^^^^^^

Bradish is 25-years old already, he's not a guy you play service time games with. 

Rodriguez I understand completely, not not Bradish. I'm not saying Bradish can't improve because it takes him a lot of pitches to normally get guys out (part of my concern with him staying a starter long term) but he needs to take his lumps for a bit at the major league level and learn and hopefully improve. Or, we find out he's a better fit for the bullpen and that's one less guy you count on next year in the rotation when you better be competing for a playoff spot.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, jamalshw said:

I don't agree with this. What most wanted (from what I saw) was for the team to give the young guys a chance and to start graduating actual prospects and didn't see the need to sign placeholders. Many seemed on board with the potential, though highly unlikely Correa signing as he was a young guy that would be in his prime along with the prospects and was a signing for the future as much as the present. I don't think too many right now are lamenting that Watkins started instead of some filler pitcher from outside the rotation, but that he started instead of Bradish or another guy who may have a future with the team. That's the issue. While I would have preferred someone else to Lyles, I'm fine with having three spots in the rotation for young guys, but Watkins turns 30 this year and is not a Major League pitcher. If the team didn't have anyone lined up that could make the start without being on short rest, fine. That's one thing and I'm okay with sacrificing Watkins in that scenario, but they did have some who started and went 4 innings in AAA after looking good in a couple spring appearances, someone who is 25 years old (young enough to still be a prospect, but old enough to where he needs to start getting his chance in the Majors). I get the service time argument (a little), but given his age and the fact he'll be 32 by the time he finishes six seasons with the Orioles, I'm not sure I have too much concern there. 

So, in short. I support Elias and his vision, but not blindly. I still like the overall direction of the franchise, but there are some decisions (like this one) that I don't agree with. So, yes, I didn't want to the Orioles to sign free agent placeholders just to be a few games better this year. And, at the same time, no, this isn't what I wanted. I wanted this year to be a year where we see the young guys (growing pains and all) instead of the likes of Watkins. To me, this isn't an issue with not signing people, this is an issue of not using the ones you have. 

Great post and on point from my perspective. 

it is time for every one of Zimmermann, Akins, Baumann, Kremer (if he gets healthy again), Lowther, Bradish, T. Wells and even A. Wells to get their shots a starters. If they are found wanting, you try them as bullpen pieces, and if that doesn't work you move on. 

This season should be about what holes they need to fill next offseason to make this club a legitimate contender. if this team is not a legitimate contender by next year, Elias has failed in his rebuild.

[Bmorebirds24]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

This ^^^^^^^^^

Bradish is 25-years old already, he's not a guy you play service time games with. 

Rodriguez I understand completely, not not Bradish. I'm not saying Bradish can't improve because it takes him a lot of pitches to normally get guys out (part of my concern with him staying a starter long term) but he needs to take his lumps for a bit at the major league level and learn and hopefully improve. Or, we find out he's a better fit for the bullpen and that's one less guy you count on next year in the rotation when you better be competing for a playoff spot.

They’re going to play the service time game with everyone. That’s how this regime is going to operate. Bradish isnt getting 35 starts in the majors even if he started on the OD roster. It makes more sense to wait until you have the extra year of service and bring him up to takehis lumps at the ML level. We are all getting impatient but him coming up April 15th is no different than May something. They’re going to play the service time for everyone. We all agree Rutschman is ready to roll. However we all know that if he didn’t get hurt he still would have started in Norfolk no matter what Elias tried to sell us. 

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Bmorebirds24 said:

They’re going to play the service time game with everyone. That’s how this regime is going to operate. Bradish isnt getting 35 starts in the majors even if he started on the OD roster. It makes more sense to wait until you have the extra year of service and bring him up to takehis lumps at the ML level. We are all getting impatient but him coming up April 15th is no different than May something. They’re going to play the service time for everyone. We all agree Rutschman is ready to roll. However we all know that if he didn’t get hurt he still would have started in Norfolk no matter what Elias tried to sell us. 

Meanwhile other Franchises are starting their top prospect rookies on Day one of the year. 

[Bmorebirds24]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Meanwhile other Franchises are starting their top prospect rookies on Day one of the year. 

Ok why should we care what KC and Sea are doing? Do these prospects starting the year at the ML benefit these teams to the point of making them a contender? Bringing up guys doesn’t change the fact the Orioles lose 90-100 games this year. You play the service game and start making the moves after a month. And if you expect a contender next year or it’s a failed rebuild then you might at well consider it a fail now. You’re looking at a .500 ball club next year. I don’t get how people don’t understand the logic that Elias is working here. 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Bmorebirds24 said:

Ok why should we care what KC and Sea are doing? Do these prospects starting the year at the ML benefit these teams to the point of making them a contender? Bringing up guys doesn’t change the fact the Orioles lose 90-100 games this year. You play the service game and start making the moves after a month. And if you expect a contender next year or it’s a failed rebuild then you might at well consider it a fail now. You’re looking at a .500 ball club next year. I don’t get how people don’t understand the logic that Elias is working here. 

Do you really think people don’t understand what Elias is doing?  
 

Do you understand the difference between not understanding and disagreeing?

[Bmorebirds24]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Do you really think people don’t understand what Elias is doing?  
 

Do you understand the difference between not understanding and disagreeing?

Of course I understand. But if you know what he’s doing and that he’s doing it for the long term of the team why would anyone disagree with that? The only reason any of us want the players up now and not worry about the service time is selfish reasons (myself included). We are getting impatient and ready to see guys we been hearing about for years. 

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Bmorebirds24 said:

Of course I understand. But if you know what he’s doing and that he’s doing it for the long term of the team why would anyone disagree with that? The only reason any of us want the players up now and not worry about the service time is selfish reasons (myself included). We are getting impatient and ready to see guys we been hearing about for years. 

Because manipulating service time just isn’t needed for most prospects.  The best of the best?  Sure.  But a 25 year old pitcher who is likely a borderline starter anyway?  No, it’s not needed.  Get your guys up, give them the experience they need and see what you have.

Is it a huge deal if they wait a few weeks?  No.  But doesn’t mean they should either.