The worst possible outcome

[Sports Guy]

This is as irresponsible as Firestone's Saturday night breathlessness. And one more example of the sort of fanatacism that will have no affect on reasonable front office minds. When did Teixeira flat out say he wants to play in Baltimore? If he chooses Boston or NY why should he be denigrated for wanting to win? Absurd. Hector Angelos for hoarding money or criticize counterintuitive organization-building (in AM I do trust) but be fair to free agents who want to win, $$$ or no $$$.

Lemon out.

Tex has said it would be a dream come true to play here...and in other various TV, radio and newspaper interviews, he has talked about how he wants to play in front of his hometown fans.

[OrioleBird79]

This is as irresponsible as Firestone's Saturday night breathlessness. And one more example of the sort of fantacism that will have no affect on reasonable front office minds. When did Teixeira flat out say he wants to play in Baltimore? If he chooses Boston or NY why should he be denigrated for wanting to win? Absurd. Hector Angelos for hoarding money or criticize counterintuitive organization-building (in AM I do trust) but be fair to free agents who want to win, $$$ or no $$$.

Lemon out.

If you want to sign with the Red Sox then do so, I didn't hear any clips saying that Teixeira wanted to be a Red Sock either. I have heard peices where hs said that playing for the hometown team would be a dream come true. Along with other quotes along these lines. He has not hid his passion for the Orioles. I disagree with your post by a good bit. No one is going to destroy him for wanting to play for a winner, just for using us to get the winner to pay more!

[Fan4Life]

This is as irresponsible as Firestone's Saturday night breathlessness. And one more example of the sort of fanatacism that will have no affect on reasonable front office minds.

Lemon out.

We're here because we're FANS. Not sure what you mean by our venting not having an affect on reasonable FO minds. That's not the intent. We have every right as FANS to be unhappy about Player X choosing another team over us especially if we've offered the most money. Which is, the primary (assumption)beef we're referring to here. And as FANS we can choose to express that unhappiness however we se fit (within the rules of good sportsmanship).

[tennOsfan]

This is as irresponsible as Firestone's Saturday night breathlessness. And one more example of the sort of fanatacism that will have no affect on reasonable front office minds. When did Teixeira flat out say he wants to play in Baltimore? If he chooses Boston or NY why should he be denigrated for wanting to win? Absurd. Hector Angelos for hoarding money or criticize counterintuitive organization-building (in AM I do trust) but be fair to free agents who want to win, $$$ or no $$$.

Lemon out.

Tony made a good point. You must have missed it, Mr. Lemon.

If Tex signs with the Red Sox "because he wants to win," then he's just another hired gun on an already-championship caliber team. How special would winning a ring be with that bunch versus winning a ring for his hometown team, leading them from obscurity to the top? There shouldn't be a comparison.

Years from now, he's just another good player who wore the Red Sox uniform. Put him in an Oriole uniform with them coming back from the dead, he lives the rest of his life as a deity-level figure in Baltimore. Big difference. He ought to be smart enough to sense that.

[opawacz]

If you want to sign with the Red Sox then do so, I didn't hear any clips saying that Teixeira wanted to be a Red Sock either. I have heard peices where hs said that playing for the hometown team would be a dream come true. Along with other quotes along these lines. He has not hid his passion for the Orioles. I disagree with your post by a good bit. No one is going to destroy him for wanting to play for a winner, just for using us to get the winner to pay more!

There is no proof that the Os are being played (nor proof of anything). Angelos and AM have professional records that are much too savvy. As the last 10 years have proven to me as a Skins and Os fan, I would not be surprised to find out our offer came up absurdly short, insider information be danged. I'm simply saying we should not set dude on fire until we hear why/where he signed.

[Cakes2Kakes]

Just my humble opinion, but I think most posters on here are out of touch with what "Joe Fan" really thinks on this issue. Most of you have drooled over Tex for several years now. You know his OPS, his OBP, his fielding average... The "average" fan doesn't even know what that stuff is let alone how to find it!

It's been years since I've lived in Baltimore, but most of my family is still there. They are die hard Orioles fans who are just tired of the losing. Like most fans of any local team they enjoy watching a well played game but when it comes to the stats of players, especially those on other teams, they are clueless. When I asked family members over the holidays what they thought the Orioles chances were of signing Tex most said things like, "Is he that local boy that's wanting all that money?" and "There ain't no ball player worth that much money!" Unless the winning started happening over night, which we all know it won't, I think there is just as big a chance that the average fan will just be further POed if PA spends all that money on one player in these tough times.

Many can't afford to go out to a game now and more and more are losing what they once saw as their right to watch games for free on local TV since MLB is selling that right to the highest bidder. Where baseball was an escape for many in hard times in the past, if the economy goes as far south as many are predicting, people will have to cut out non-essentials which will likely include the high price of attending games, cable and satellite packages, and overpriced licenced merchandise. Where will baseball turn for the money to pay these long term contracts if they kill the goose that's been laying all of these golden eggs?

I for one would be fine with watching Boston over pay for Tex and continue our slow, tedious plan of building from within. Baltimore is the kind of town that will rally behind a team of under payed, underdogs, who give the rich kids there comeuppance every now and then, and work hard to build a new winning tradition for the future.

[Lucky Jim]

Tony made a good point. You must have missed it, Mr. Lemon.

If Tex signs with the Red Sox "because he wants to win," then he's just another hired gun on an already-championship caliber team. How special would winning a ring be with that bunch versus winning a ring for his hometown team, leading them from obscurity to the top? There shouldn't be a comparison.

Years from now, he's just another good player who wore the Red Sox uniform. Put him in an Oriole uniform with them coming back from the dead, he lives the rest of his life as a deity-level figure in Baltimore. Big difference. He ought to be smart enough to sense that.

It's not a level playing field. The "ifs" are wildly imbalanced. How much better is it to win a world series for anybody than to never win one?

And what are the odds of the Red Sox winning versus the O's?

Leading the O's from obscurity to a ring is such a dramatic long-shot that the "chance" to do that should be severely discounted.

[Fan4Life]

There is no proof that the Os are being played (nor proof of anything). Angelos and AM have professional records that are much too savvy. As the last 10 years have proven to me as a Skins and Os fan, I would not be surprised to find out our offer came up absurdly short, insider information be danged. I'm simply saying we should not set dude on fire until we hear why/where he signed.

Our history would give every reason to think this, sure. I would point out that if there weren't at least 2 teams bidding within reasonable distance of eachother, he'd already have signed. Whether we are one of them, is the question.

[tennOsfan]

It's not a level playing field. The "ifs" are wildly imbalanced. How much better is it to win a world series for anybody than to never win one?

And what are the odds of the Red Sox winning versus the O's?

Leading the O's from obscurity to a ring is such a dramatic long-shot that the "chance" to do that should be severely discounted.

There we have it, everyone! There's no reason to even worry about this team's future because success is a dramatic long-shot. No reason for us to care at all.

[Boca Bird]

If money is similar and winning is important, then Tex has every right (and I will *NOT* hate on him for doing so) to go to the team that will satisfy his lust for winning. I absolutely would love to have him here, but for some people (and let's not forget Tex is 28, and will be 29 at the beginning of this season), they want to start winning. Brian Roberts does. Will you blame him for going to a winning team and not resigning with the Orioles?

I think Tex will go for the most money, he is a Boras client and to do anything else would be a departure. That said, I don't think that the O's will offer the most money

If the money is equal, he'll probably choose winning. I, too feel that its is unfair and incorrect to call someone who sees this team as not close to being a contender as a "defeatist" Realist is far more appropriate. Despite the prevailing optimism of those who think we are close to winning, I just don't see it. For us to be contenders, all 3 of Tillman, Arreita, and Matusz would have to flourish at the ML level --and the odds are against it. WE'll be lucky if 1 of the 3 works out and remains healthy.

Furthermore, we've got more holes opening up next year at 2b and 3b to fill next yr when Roberts leaves to go to a winner and Mora moves on. WHo will play those positons ? You could argue that Roberts will re-sign if we got Tex, but there is still a rotation full of prospects for the O's; meanwhile our competition has and will have proven commodities and the wherewithal to keep adding known quantities throughout the length of Tex's contract here.

Maybe Tex isn't willing to bet the future success of playing for a contender on 3 prospects who haven't even reached AAA. OF course, if we offer the most money, it probably wouldn't matter. If he signs with WSH,we'll know that we didn't offer the most money. IF he signs with Bos, ther'll be a lot more speculation about what was offered

[Lucky Jim]

There we have it, everyone! There's no reason to even worry about this team's future because success is a dramatic long-shot. No reason for us to care at all.

Your courtroom histrionics aside - and I'm sure they're fantastic when you're prosecuting your local criminals - you're completely mischaracterizing my post.

I'm guessing you know that, so there's probably no point in explaining it to you. That said, a quick cocktail napkin calculation:

Say Teix values winning the WS with the Orioles at 20.

And winning the WS with anyone else at 10.

And the odds of the Sox winning a WS in the next five years is: 10:1

And the odds of the Orioles winning a WS in the next five years is: 100:1

Then, where does the value reside? Those are just hypothetical numbers, but the disparity in the odds of winning in the next five years is so great - right now - that Teix would be silly not to consider that (if WINNING were the key). Obviously, this gets distorted if you assume that Teix values winning with us by an order of 10 over any other team. That's a serious assumption, however.

This has nothing to do with the rest of us as fans, or the organization's strategy. Which I'm made pretty obvious in post after post on here. Our job is to reduce those odds. The more we do that, the closer we get to contending, the less we'll have to rely on a market advantage like geography - an advantage which - while potentially exploitable - also puts us in the unenviable position of eventually rejecting a hometown hero for making rational decisions.

So, you know, "there you have it."

[Mirko Crocop]

So far we've seen the Yankees take on pitchers who both had hometown loyalties before signing with the Yankees. CC wanted to either go to the West Coast or stay in Milwaukee. He balked at the initial offering of $140MM that he was offered. Cashman sold him at the very last minute with an extra $20MM.

Burnett wanted to play in Baltimore and that was his plan. The Yankees went all in and suddenly the 4/60 deal turned into 5/80. And now Burnett is in New York.

It doesn't seem to me like hometown has much to do with baseball negotiations.

And if the highest offer ends up being spurned, it won't have to do with money either.

[Mad Mark]

Some good points being made in this thread, and I'd like to touch on a couple.

Teixeira is a Boras client. Boras clients sign with the team that offers the most money. If it comes to a contest of "my pile of cash is bigger" between the Orioles and Red $ox, or between the Orioles and Yankee$, the Orioles lose. End of story. Either of those teams has more resources to draw on than do the Orioles.

Although I'm appalled by the salary numbers being thrown around in the Teixeira quest, I'd much prefer to pay more per year for fewer years than less per year for more years. The prospect of buying anybody's age 37 through age 40 seasons is dicey at best.

Ultimately, the solution to MLB's bizarro world revenue system is more comprehensive revenue sharing. I believe a system where at least 75% of all local revenues (as determined by the real, not the cooked books) would be a major start to leveling the playing field.

[Fan4Life]

Some good points being made in this thread, and I'd like to touch on a couple.

Teixeira is a Boras client. Boras clients sign with the team that offers the most money. If it comes to a contest of "my pile of cash is bigger" between the Orioles and Red $ox, or between the Orioles and Yankee$, the Orioles lose. End of story. Either of those teams has more resources to draw on than do the Orioles.

.

I think Bluedog has shown this not to be the case as things stand presently. Sure NY and Boston have more total resources, but when looking at committed versus available resources, neither of them can really compete with us if we choose to take it all the way to the end.

[SilentJames]

Some good points being made in this thread, and I'd like to touch on a couple.

Teixeira is a Boras client. Boras clients sign with the team that offers the most money. If it comes to a contest of "my pile of cash is bigger" between the Orioles and Red $ox, or between the Orioles and Yankee$, the Orioles lose. End of story. Either of those teams has more resources to draw on than do the Orioles.

Although I'm appalled by the salary numbers being thrown around in the Teixeira quest, I'd much prefer to pay more per year for fewer years than less per year for more years. The prospect of buying anybody's age 37 through age 40 seasons is dicey at best.

Ultimately, the solution to MLB's bizarro world revenue system is more comprehensive revenue sharing. I believe a system where at least 75% of all local revenues (as determined by the real, not the cooked books) would be a major start to leveling the playing field.

You have really got to wonder why the owners have not gotten on that. I mean unless Steinbrenner had more sway than people thought.

If the owners get complacent that is where the commissioner comes in, th more I look at the state of finances in baseball the more it appears that Steinbrenner was really running baseball.