Manny Machado and the Hall of Fame

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

 

And Bill Mazeroski also has one of the most, if not the most, iconic HRs ever.  Career work be damned, it's about the moment in time for that guy.  What every kid dreams of...  

Insert Curt Schilling plug here...

You want to put Kirk Gibson in?

[btdart20]

52 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You want to put Kirk Gibson in?

Nah.  Even I have my standards.  Double as they may be.

[DrungoHazewood]

On 5/27/2022 at 4:47 PM, btdart20 said:

 

And Bill Mazeroski also has one of the most, if not the most, iconic HRs ever.  Career work be damned, it's about the moment in time for that guy.  What every kid dreams of...  

Insert Curt Schilling plug here...

The BBWAA guidance on HOF voting includes:

Quote

• Voting — Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

• Automatic Elections — No automatic elections based on performances such as a batting average of .400 or more for one (1) year, pitching a perfect game or similar outstanding achievement shall be permitted.

It seems to me that the second part says you shouldn't be inducted for one specific performance like pitching a perfect game, which I take as including hitting a single, important home run.

But I suppose doing that and getting tagged with "best double play pivot ever" has him covered.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The BBWAA guidance on HOF voting includes:

It seems to me that the second part says you shouldn't be inducted for one specific performance like pitching a perfect game, which I take as including hitting a single, important home run.

But I suppose doing that and getting tagged with "best double play pivot ever" has him covered.

I’d say the homer was a pretty important “contribution to the team on which the player played.”

I doubt he goes to the HOF without that homer, but it’s not like it’s the only good thing Mazeroski ever did.  Seven-time all-star, eight-time Gold Glover.   And before WAR was invented, it was a lot harder to balance the importance of offensive and defensive contributions.   It’s easy to look back now and criticize how those evaluations were made, but it was just a lot harder back in the day.  

[DrungoHazewood]

6 hours ago, Frobby said:

I’d say the homer was a pretty important “contribution to the team on which the player played.”

I doubt he goes to the HOF without that homer, but it’s not like it’s the only good thing Mazeroski ever did.  Seven-time all-star, eight-time Gold Glover.   And before WAR was invented, it was a lot harder to balance the importance of offensive and defensive contributions.   It’s easy to look back now and criticize how those evaluations were made, but it was just a lot harder back in the day.  

The BBWAA didn't really have much problem when they rejected him 15 consecutive years.  In 1982 he was 22nd in the voting, behind Don Larsen, Elston Howard, Lew Burdette, Harvey Kuenn, and Maury Wills.  In '84 he got 18% of the vote when his peer Luis Aparicio got 84%. His last year, 1992, when you usually get a big bump he got 42%.

[Frobby]

28 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The BBWAA didn't really have much problem when they rejected him 15 consecutive years.  In 1982 he was 22nd in the voting, behind Don Larsen, Elston Howard, Lew Burdette, Harvey Kuenn, and Maury Wills.  In '84 he got 18% of the vote when his peer Luis Aparicio got 84%. His last year, 1992, when you usually get a big bump he got 42%.

Good info.  Has the “last year bump” always been a thing?   I feel like it’s a more recent phenomenon, but I really don’t know.   

I’m not a fan of the Veterans Committee or the newer version.  I didn’t mean to suggest I think Mazeroski should have gotten in.  I was mostly just commenting that the decisions were more subjective before the modern metrics existed.  Interestingly, by WAR, Maz was significantly better than Larsen, Howard, Burdette and Kuenn, and just a bit behind Wills (39.5 rWAR to 36.5).